COVID-19 - On the Ground

[PhDhawk]

Is it really an "entirely different beast"? It is more infectious, but numbers seem to indicate it isn't any more deadly.....and it's almost not deadly at all for vaccinated individuals.

So as much as we agree on almost all things covid, i do think some of the hysteria and fear mongering gets a little out of control at times. Not speaking about you, since you're not hysterical and don't do the fear mongering, just speaking in general.

Imo there is no reason to even be discussing new lockdowns or mandated vaccination at this point.

I think the issue is more that you have a more infectious strain, and it is now maybe just a couple of point mutations away from being less protected by the vaccine.

It's just a numbers game. CNN had an article a while back about unvaccinated being mutation factories for the vaccine. It's the reason the vaccinated should encourage the unvaccinated to get inoculated.

Fewer susceptible people = fewer viruses = less chance/more time before mutations occur that evade our vaccine-acquired immunity.

[Deleted User 863]

Is it really an "entirely different beast"? It is more infectious, but numbers seem to indicate it isn't any more deadly.....and it's almost not deadly at all for vaccinated individuals.

So as much as we agree on almost all things covid, i do think some of the hysteria and fear mongering gets a little out of control at times. Not speaking about you, since you're not hysterical and don't do the fear mongering, just speaking in general.

Imo there is no reason to even be discussing new lockdowns or mandated vaccination at this point.

I think the issue is more that you have a more infectious strain, and it is now maybe just a couple of point mutations away from being less protected by the vaccine.

It's just a numbers game. CNN had an article a while back about unvaccinated being mutation factories for the vaccine. It's the reason the vaccinated should encourage the unvaccinated to get inoculated.

Fewer susceptible people = fewer viruses = less chance/more time before mutations occur that evade our vaccine-acquired immunity.

Can viruses mutate in vaccinated individuals who have breakthrough infections? Does it matter whether they're symptomatic or not?

[MICHHAWK]

who is proposing lockdowns?

and yes, practically speaking it IS a different beast...its level of transmissibility alone makes it notably different from the original strain

obviously, it’s a semantic argument of sorts, but if it wasn’t so different i doubt we’d even be having this discussion because we wouldn’t see rates of infections, hospitalizations and deaths rising...even with the behavior of numbskulls

also, i specifically included the practical aspect because in the grand biological scheme it isn’t all that different, but the “on the ground” effect requires renewed mitigation efforts

that is what you call following the "political science." you should run for office.

i had to put my hip wadders on to read that.

[PhDhawk]

Is it really an "entirely different beast"? It is more infectious, but numbers seem to indicate it isn't any more deadly.....and it's almost not deadly at all for vaccinated individuals.

So as much as we agree on almost all things covid, i do think some of the hysteria and fear mongering gets a little out of control at times. Not speaking about you, since you're not hysterical and don't do the fear mongering, just speaking in general.

Imo there is no reason to even be discussing new lockdowns or mandated vaccination at this point.

I think the issue is more that you have a more infectious strain, and it is now maybe just a couple of point mutations away from being less protected by the vaccine.

It's just a numbers game. CNN had an article a while back about unvaccinated being mutation factories for the vaccine. It's the reason the vaccinated should encourage the unvaccinated to get inoculated.

Fewer susceptible people = fewer viruses = less chance/more time before mutations occur that evade our vaccine-acquired immunity.

Can viruses mutate in vaccinated individuals who have breakthrough infections? Does it matter whether they're symptomatic or not?

Yes, but you have fewer viruses for a shorter amount of time. Mutations happen during replication so the less of that you have the less chance of getting a new variant of concern.

[Deleted User 89]

Is it really an "entirely different beast"? It is more infectious, but numbers seem to indicate it isn't any more deadly.....and it's almost not deadly at all for vaccinated individuals.

So as much as we agree on almost all things covid, i do think some of the hysteria and fear mongering gets a little out of control at times. Not speaking about you, since you're not hysterical and don't do the fear mongering, just speaking in general.

Imo there is no reason to even be discussing new lockdowns or mandated vaccination at this point.

I think the issue is more that you have a more infectious strain, and it is now maybe just a couple of point mutations away from being less protected by the vaccine.

It's just a numbers game. CNN had an article a while back about unvaccinated being mutation factories for the vaccine. It's the reason the vaccinated should encourage the unvaccinated to get inoculated.

Fewer susceptible people = fewer viruses = less chance/more time before mutations occur that evade our vaccine-acquired immunity.

“The message to those who remain unvaccinated should be: Don’t let the virus use you to harm others.”

[Deleted User 89]

I think the issue is more that you have a more infectious strain, and it is now maybe just a couple of point mutations away from being less protected by the vaccine.

It's just a numbers game. CNN had an article a while back about unvaccinated being mutation factories for the vaccine. It's the reason the vaccinated should encourage the unvaccinated to get inoculated.

Fewer susceptible people = fewer viruses = less chance/more time before mutations occur that evade our vaccine-acquired immunity.

Can viruses mutate in vaccinated individuals who have breakthrough infections? Does it matter whether they're symptomatic or not?

Yes, but you have fewer viruses for a shorter amount of time. Mutations happen during replication so the less of that you have the less chance of getting a new variant of concern.

any severe, relatively long-lasting infection, breakthrough or natural

[Deleted User 863]

who is proposing lockdowns?

and yes, practically speaking it IS a different beast...its level of transmissibility alone makes it notably different from the original strain

obviously, it’s a semantic argument of sorts, but if it wasn’t so different i doubt we’d even be having this discussion because we wouldn’t see rates of infections, hospitalizations and deaths rising...even with the behavior of numbskulls

also, i specifically included the practical aspect because in the grand biological scheme it isn’t all that different, but the “on the ground” effect requires renewed mitigation efforts

The mainstream media is discussing new lockdowns almost nightly it seems like.

A few weeks ago people were also saying "nobody is proposing mandatory vaccines"....and now they're popping up in various places.

Also Delta variant is like the 4th variant identified so far, correct? I am not trying to downplay it, but they've (media) done this same thing with at least 1 other variant. Yes it's more contagious. But they've all been extremely contagious.

To me, what it feels like, is that they're (mainstream media) trying to scare people into getting vaccinated. I am all in favor of vaccinations obviously, but part of the reason people on the right have their heels dug in is because of the over the top reaction they see by some on the left. I am not saying that's right, because it's not, but it's happening.

The variants and possible mutations won't be eliminated by getting another 15% of our country vaccinated because much of the rest of the world is also lagging way behind....so we are going to be at risk of mutations of this virus for the rest of our lives. There will be new variants every year is my guess, based on the current rate of new ones popping up.

This is just something we are going to live with forever imo. A more contagious and slightly more deadly flu virus. But vaccination reduces chances of death or serious illness to almost 0. Almost all the deaths moving forward will be the idiots who choose not to get vaccinated. That's their choice/freedum.

[MICHHAWK]

This is just something we are going to live with forever imo. A more contagious and slightly more deadly flu virus. But vaccination reduces chances of death or serious illness to almost 0. Almost all the deaths moving forward will be the idiots who choose not to get vaccinated. That's their choice/freedum.

truer words have never been spoken.

case closed.

lock thread.

[Deleted User 89]

This is just something we are going to live with forever imo. A more contagious and slightly more deadly flu virus. But vaccination reduces chances of death or serious illness to almost 0. Almost all the deaths moving forward will be the idiots who choose not to get vaccinated. That's their choice/freedum.

truer words have never been spoken.

case closed.

lock thread.

then move on and quit posting here

those of us that remain interested will continue to discuss like adults

[Deleted User 89]

who is proposing lockdowns?

and yes, practically speaking it IS a different beast...its level of transmissibility alone makes it notably different from the original strain

obviously, it’s a semantic argument of sorts, but if it wasn’t so different i doubt we’d even be having this discussion because we wouldn’t see rates of infections, hospitalizations and deaths rising...even with the behavior of numbskulls

also, i specifically included the practical aspect because in the grand biological scheme it isn’t all that different, but the “on the ground” effect requires renewed mitigation efforts

The mainstream media is discussing new lockdowns almost nightly it seems like.

A few weeks ago people were also saying "nobody is proposing mandatory vaccines"....and now they're popping up in various places.

Also Delta variant is like the 4th variant identified so far, correct? I am not trying to downplay it, but they've (media) done this same thing with at least 1 other variant. Yes it's more contagious. But they've all been extremely contagious.

To me, what it feels like, is that they're (mainstream media) trying to scare people into getting vaccinated. I am all in favor of vaccinations obviously, but part of the reason people on the right have their heels dug in is because of the over the top reaction they see by some on the left. I am not saying that's right, because it's not, but it's happening.

The variants and possible mutations won't be eliminated by getting another 15% of our country vaccinated because much of the rest of the world is also lagging way behind....so we are going to be at risk of mutations of this virus for the rest of our lives. There will be new variants every year is my guess, based on the current rate of new ones popping up.

This is just something we are going to live with forever imo. A more contagious and slightly more deadly flu virus. But vaccination reduces chances of death or serious illness to almost 0. Almost all the deaths moving forward will be the idiots who choose not to get vaccinated. That's their choice/freedum.

i choose to take with a grain of salt much if what the press when it comes to actual covid data (not cases, etc, but actual viral behavior and evolution)...they rarely get the details correct and are more interested in getting views

the US (and every other wealthy country) needs to do waaaay more to address the issue globally. it’s shameful that we’ve literally got doses sitting around and expiring when there are people all over the world that would jump at the opportunity to get jabbed

it’s naive to think that we know how this is going to play out going forward, but so far we’ve underestimated the mutational capacity. i’d rather “us” not make the same mistake going forward. you outlined the best case scenario, where covid ends up being little more than a slightly worse flu. that’s literally the best we can hope for.

it really takes very little, from a mutational/evolutionary perspective, for this to end up being much worse. we’ve been relatively lucky thus far in that the major mutational changes have only really improved transmissibility, and haven’t done much to improve lethality (or at least not lethality in and of itself)

edit: i should clarify that the actual mutational rate of covid is notably lower than things like HIV or flu...it’s the implications of the mutations that we’ve underestimated

[PhDhawk]

This is so fucked up. And this is why I'm not listening to the whole "Leave people alone and let them make their own decision" crowd. Anti-vaxxers are agressive, they actively spread their lies, and they won't stop. We need to make sure people know the truth about vaccines and that people who want them aren't prevented from getting them:

Some people in Missouri are getting vaccinated against Covid-19 in secret, doctor says. They fear backlash from loved ones who oppose the vaccines

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/29/health/v ... index.html

[ousdahl]

Anti-vaxxers: MaNdAtEs Is FaScIsM!!!!


Also anti-vaxxers:

This is so fucked up. And this is why I'm not listening to the whole "Leave people alone and let them make their own decision" crowd. Anti-vaxxers are agressive, they actively spread their lies, and they won't stop. We need to make sure people know the truth about vaccines and that people who want them aren't prevented from getting them:

Some people in Missouri are getting vaccinated against Covid-19 in secret, doctor says. They fear backlash from loved ones who oppose the vaccines

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/29/health/v ... index.html

[PhDhawk]

Anti-vaxxers: MaNdAtEs Is FaScIsM!!!!


Also anti-vaxxers:

This is so fucked up. And this is why I'm not listening to the whole "Leave people alone and let them make their own decision" crowd. Anti-vaxxers are agressive, they actively spread their lies, and they won't stop. We need to make sure people know the truth about vaccines and that people who want them aren't prevented from getting them:

Some people in Missouri are getting vaccinated against Covid-19 in secret, doctor says. They fear backlash from loved ones who oppose the vaccines

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/29/health/v ... index.html

No one tells me what to do!

You better fucking do what I say!

[randylahey]

The list of guidelines recommendation and mandates is constantly changing. Back and forth. To be blunt they are just making shit up as they go. Because there is no perfect method for this

[randylahey]

So just do what you are comfortable with and what you feel is right. This all has to come to an end at some point. 2 years of bullshit to try to control a virus that doesn't pose much of a threat to the vast majority seems really illogical

[Deleted User 89]

yeah, let’s trust peoples’ feelings

that’s always the best route

[randylahey]

And trying to guilt or shame people into doing what you feel is right is what is really selfish. It's just your opinion

[PhDhawk]

Again, randy, that's not true.

The science didn't change, the virus did, Fauci says as U.S. CDC updates mask guidance

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavir ... -1.5526293

"Unlike the Alpha variant that we had back in May, where we didn't believe that if you were vaccinated you could transmit further, this is different now with a Delta variant," CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said, citing information investigators found when looking at outbreak clusters.

Wouldn't it be so much worse if the scientists just dug their heals in believing in some unsubstantiated dogma, the way anti-vaxxers have.

If the virus changes, and it does, you have to adapt your response to the virus. This isn't making shit up as you go, it's gathering data and adjusting in response to the changes that you see.

So, no, don't do what you feel comfortable with. Instead follow the science, listen to the experts. Get vaccinated if you want this to end.

[ousdahl]

“my ignorance is worth just as much as your knowledge”

[MICHHAWK]

Get vaccinated if you want this to end.

unless the man is full of $#!t. why would a vaxxed person be mandated to wear a mask.

unless of course the man is full of $#!t.









we know the man is full of $#!t. no matter what. they gonna mandate.