COVID-19 - On the Ground

[TDub]

But here's the thing: on a population scale, if everyone would just get the fucking shot, we could do all of those things, guilt-free.

This is false.

Explain.

Again?

Vaccinated people can carry and transmit the same viral load of the virus as the unvaxxed. Israel is a prime example of high vaccination rates not halting the virus.

[Deleted User 863]

Explain.

Vaccinated people still contract and spread the virus.

[Deleted User 863]

Opening up should have been the carrot dangled to get everyone vaxxed. Instead, the vax was released so everyone opened up.

Agreed. And I am guilty of it too, although we are scaling back what we were doing quite a bit now to attempt to do our part.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Explain.

Vaccinated people still contract and spread the virus.

But, are less likely to contract, and the goal is to stop the bad cases. Eradicating goal is long gone.

[jfish26]

Perfect, enemy of the good, and so on.

The vaccine is amazingly effective at preventing hospitalizations and deaths. Yes - very very very much yes - if everyone was vaccinated, then there would not need to be material restrictions on going about our lives.

[Deleted User 89]

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/08 ... art-covid/

More people are poisoning themselves with horse-deworming drug to thwart COVID

Amid the current delta-fueled wave of COVID-19, officials have noted a dangerous surge in the misuse of a deworming drug routinely used in livestock. The result is an uptick in calls to poison control centers, empty shelves in farming supply stores, and pleas from regulators.

In an attention-grabbing tweet over the weekend, the Food and Drug Administration wrote bluntly: "You are not a horse. You are not a cow. Seriously, y'all. Stop it.”
...
In humans, the FDA has approved ivermectin tablets to treat conditions caused by parasitic intestinal worms as well as topical formulations for some external parasites, like head lice. But it's critical to note that the ivermectin drugs available to people involve relatively small doses and are in formulations known to be safe for human use. The over-the-counter livestock drugs, on the other hand, are not formulated for human use and have much larger doses for the animals' much larger bodies. At higher concentrations, ivermectin begins to interfere with not just nematode ion channels, but other types of critical channels in humans and animals, like neurotransmitter channels. This can be extremely dangerous.
...
All of this hasn't stopped COVID misinformation mills on the Internet from promoting the drug—and people from buying into it. The FDA has been warning of misuse for months. But amid the surge in the delta coronavirus variant, ivermectin misuse has escalated to alarming levels.
...
In a health alert Thursday, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention warned that prescriptions for ivermectin have skyrocketed this month. And people unable to get a prescription for the drug have resorted to buying the over-the-counter livestock drugs, clearing out supplies in farming stores. In turn, poison control centers have seen a spike in ivermectin-related calls in recent weeks, and reports of serious illnesses from overdoses have also increased.

According to a recent analysis, the average rate of ivermectin prescriptions per week went from 3,600 prepandemic to a peak of 39,000 prescriptions in the week ending on January 8 of this year, when COVID-19 cases surged. Since early July, ivermectin dispensing has again surged along with COVID-19 cases, reaching more than 88,000 prescriptions in the week ending August 13, the CDC noted. That translates to a 24-fold increase from the prepandemic baseline.

With the drug booms came booms in poisonings. In January, poison control centers across the US received three times the number of ivermectin-related calls compared with the prepandemic baseline, the CDC reported. In July, ivermectin calls have continued to increase sharply, reaching a fivefold increase from baseline. The calls have also been linked to a rise in ivermectin-related emergency department and hospital visits...

[TDub]

We've scaled back to basically nothing again. Its depressing for the kids and wife. Doesnt bother me much. I got plenty to do to keep me busy and I dont particularly enjoy being around most people anyway. But it sure is hard on them which I feel for them.

[Deleted User 863]

Explain.

Vaccinated people still contract and spread the virus.

But, are less likely to contract, and the goal is to stop the bad cases. Eradicating goal is long gone.

Less likely to contract or less likely to be symptomatic? Big difference. I know it provides some protection against contracting, but sounds like it may be much lower than they originally expected.

Asymptomatic people rarely get tested. Why would they? Unless they're in a regular testing regimen for a job, all of those fly under the radar and don't impact the #s.

I think we'd be wise to ramp up the restrictions regardless of vaccination status or vaccinated population %.

These are shots we need every 8 months. We need to reduce the amount of virus circulating in communities and the absolute best way to do that is isolate/lockdown/socially distance. 1 month of extreme lockdowns would do more good than this half assed shit going on now.

Or, and this is not my personal belief, we just learn to live with it and continue on with our lives.

I'd like to give it a go to reduce the community spread around the world to manageable levels so we can still attempt to eventually eradicate down the road (say in the next 10 years).

Remember when contact tracing was going to be a big thing? We need to get back to trying to get it to a level where that is even possible...and we aren't even remotely close.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Vaccinated people still contract and spread the virus.

But, are less likely to contract, and the goal is to stop the bad cases. Eradicating goal is long gone.

Less likely to contract or less likely to be symptomatic? Big difference. I know it provides some protection against contracting, but sounds like it may be much lower than they originally expected.

In mostly laymen's terms, how I understand it from reading what's available on Johns Hopkins is that if a vaccinated person has COVID-19, they can carry the same viral load as unvaccinated, i.e. potentially spread it just as easily as unvaccinated. But, vaccinated have shown to be less likely to contact SARS-COV-2, and even less likely to contract COVID-19. So, it would be accurate to state that vaccinated people can spread it as easily as unvaccinated if they have a breakthrough, but (knowing what we know right now) it would be inaccurate to say that vaccinated people are spreading it at the same rate as the unvaccinated.

[sdoyel]

vs the alternative? Dying of a highly infectious disease while pregnant?

wouldn't the above qualify as the definition of misinformation?

dr. hysteria is telling the pregnant gals to "either take the vaxx, or you and your unborn child will die"

Yes

Oh good Lord.

[sdoyel]

But, are less likely to contract, and the goal is to stop the bad cases. Eradicating goal is long gone.

Less likely to contract or less likely to be symptomatic? Big difference. I know it provides some protection against contracting, but sounds like it may be much lower than they originally expected.

In mostly laymen's terms, how I understand it from reading what's available on Johns Hopkins is that if a vaccinated person has COVID-19, they can carry the same viral load as unvaccinated, i.e. potentially spread it just as easily as unvaccinated. But, vaccinated have shown to be less likely to contact SARS-COV-2, and even less likely to contract COVID-19. So, it would be accurate to state that vaccinated people can spread it as easily as unvaccinated if they have a breakthrough, but (knowing what we know right now) it would be inaccurate to say that vaccinated people are spreading it at the same rate as the unvaccinated.

The anti-vax crowd has latched onto this, without really understanding what it really means...

If the vaccine is 90% effective, only 10% of people (with breakthroughs) potentially carry the viral load to infect someone else.

It's simple math. The more and more people to get vaccinated the better.

[sdoyel]

Common sense prevails, yet again:

[Deleted User 89]

But, are less likely to contract, and the goal is to stop the bad cases. Eradicating goal is long gone.

Less likely to contract or less likely to be symptomatic? Big difference. I know it provides some protection against contracting, but sounds like it may be much lower than they originally expected.

In mostly laymen's terms, how I understand it from reading what's available on Johns Hopkins is that if a vaccinated person has COVID-19, they can carry the same viral load as unvaccinated, i.e. potentially spread it just as easily as unvaccinated. But, vaccinated have shown to be less likely to contact SARS-COV-2, and even less likely to contract COVID-19. So, it would be accurate to state that vaccinated people can spread it as easily as unvaccinated if they have a breakthrough, but (knowing what we know right now) it would be inaccurate to say that vaccinated people are spreading it at the same rate as the unvaccinated.

^^^^
amazing what one can find when they try to educate themselves

[CrimsonNBlue]

Common sense prevails, yet again:

That's not common sense, that's the Constitution.

[twocoach]

Less likely to contract or less likely to be symptomatic? Big difference. I know it provides some protection against contracting, but sounds like it may be much lower than they originally expected.

In mostly laymen's terms, how I understand it from reading what's available on Johns Hopkins is that if a vaccinated person has COVID-19, they can carry the same viral load as unvaccinated, i.e. potentially spread it just as easily as unvaccinated. But, vaccinated have shown to be less likely to contact SARS-COV-2, and even less likely to contract COVID-19. So, it would be accurate to state that vaccinated people can spread it as easily as unvaccinated if they have a breakthrough, but (knowing what we know right now) it would be inaccurate to say that vaccinated people are spreading it at the same rate as the unvaccinated.

The anti-vax crowd has latched onto this, without really understanding what it really means...

If the vaccine is 90% effective, only 10% of people (with breakthroughs) potentially carry the viral load to infect someone else.

It's simple math. The more and more people to get vaccinated the better.

And only a tiny fraction of those 10% would actually carry the same viral load as an unvaccinated person. Even 1 out of a million means that it "can" happen.

[Deleted User 863]

90% effective at what? It's biggest ability/benefit is to prevent serious illness and death. It is probably not 90% effective at preventing someone from ever getting covid from anything i have seen/read. Vaccinated people who are asymptomatic are rarely going to get tested to count as a breakthrough case.

If the virus is circulating in large numbers, the best protection from catching covid is to isolate from other people, right?

Vaccinate and isolate. Everything else is just kicking the can down the road imo.

[Deleted User 863]

And only a tiny fraction of those 10% would actually carry the same viral load as an unvaccinated person. Even 1 out of a million means that it "can" happen.

Link?

[Deleted User 89]

...The three most important tools we have in stopping the spread of COVID-19 are masks, social distancing, and vaccination, Blaser says.

“What we had hoped was that the vaccine would lower transmission,” he says. The delta variant seems to be making this task substantially more difficult. Researchers have found preliminary evidence that vaccinated people who catch this swiftly-replicating variant can accumulate similar levels of virus to unvaccinated people. Scientists have also grown live viruses from nasal swabs taken from vaccinated COVID-19 patients, and used it to infect and kill human cell cultures. This lends support to the idea that vaccinated people may still readily spread the virus if they become infected.

However, another recent report suggests that vaccinated people who catch COVID-19 are less infectious than the unvaccinated. Researchers found that viruses sampled from vaccinated people replicated less efficiently than viruses from unvaccinated people. The findings, which haven’t yet undergone peer review, could mean that people who develop breakthrough cases don’t “shed” as much virus as unvaccinated people who catch COVID-19...

[sdoyel]

[Mjl]

90% effective at what? It's biggest ability/benefit is to prevent serious illness and death. It is probably not 90% effective at preventing someone from ever getting covid from anything i have seen/read. Vaccinated people who are asymptomatic are rarely going to get tested to count as a breakthrough case.

If the virus is circulating in large numbers, the best protection from catching covid is to isolate from other people, right?

Vaccinate and isolate. Everything else is just kicking the can down the road imo.

Nobody is claiming "ever", that's just your rhetorical bullshit again, but assuming you leave that word out, that's exactly what the trials showed. So read those.