21-22 lineup

[pdub]

While I don’t disagree that maybe Garrett wasn’t the pg we needed last year, I also can’t help but wonder if it’s “blame the quarterback” syndrome.

Cuz at the same time, Garrett was the only guy from last year’s roster to earn an nba deal, despite other dudes trying to too.

Well, he was kind of the quarterback, some people had him as a Naismith candidate in preseason.
So, while it can be unfair, that was HIS team.

[ousdahl]

Garrett shot 66 3's, just 2 more than Ellis did his senior year.
So yes, minutes played + 3 pointers shot + 3 point percentage is a factor.

I will give credit for Ellis being statistically the best shooting “big” we’ve had.

But yea, stats aside, I’d rather have either Morris taking that shot if we needed it.

ETA or Dedric!

[ousdahl]

While I don’t disagree that maybe Garrett wasn’t the pg we needed last year, I also can’t help but wonder if it’s “blame the quarterback” syndrome.

Cuz at the same time, Garrett was the only guy from last year’s roster to earn an nba deal, despite other dudes trying to too.

Well, he was kind of the quarterback, some people had him as a Naismith candidate in preseason.
So, while it can be unfair, that was HIS team.

Yea, it’s Garrett’s fault Och Braun and Jalen bricked all those open looks, and couldn’t get to the rim if their life depended on it.

[CrimsonNBlue]

While I don’t disagree that maybe Garrett wasn’t the pg we needed last year, I also can’t help but wonder if it’s “blame the quarterback” syndrome.

Cuz at the same time, Garrett was the only guy from last year’s roster to earn an nba deal, despite other dudes trying to too.

It's a quite different game with different roles, but Garrett had nothing to gain (pro-wise) by coming back. Would probably have hurt that aspect, actually.

[pdub]

"I’d rather have either Morris taking that shot if we needed it."

Errr, I wouldn't.
Ellis 43.8% 3FG, 66 3's attempted.
Kief 42.4% 3FG, 59 3's attempted.
Marcus 34.2% 3FG, 76 3's attempted.

[ousdahl]

Yeah, prob not.

Unless…

For that matter what did Och have to gain by coming back? Show he can be a more consistent shooter plus get to the rim more?

How does that not apply to Garrett too?

But yeah I do agree Garrett prob did max out the development he stood to gain in college, and prob had more to loose by returning

[CrimsonNBlue]

This goes to the game changing in the few years after the twins left, but I think Perry would have also benefitted (at KU) by being a couple years younger and getting an older version of Bill Self.

Perry always had the ability to shoot 40%+ from 3 on 100 attempts, but we just weren't playing that way at that time. Was able to show it off a little his senior year, and part of that was both he and staff knew he'd need to show it to have any shot at NBA.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Yeah, prob not.

Unless…

For that matter what did Och have to gain by coming back? Show he can be a more consistent shooter plus get to the rim more?

How does that not apply to Garrett too?

But yeah I do agree Garrett prob did max out the development he stood to gain in college, and prob had more to loose by returning

Och has still only had 1 full season, and was told he could work his way into the 1st round if he gets stronger and attacks off the dribble. It was also his first NBA combine, which is crazy to think about.

The film's out there on Garrett, he's never going to develop the shot, and he basically struck while the iron is hot getting to be a bit player at the end of an NBA bench. If Garrett hasn't achieved 100% of his potential then he is damn near close.

Plus, NIL changes the calculation.

[ousdahl]

This goes to the game changing in the few years after the twins left, but I think Perry would have also benefitted (at KU) by being a couple years younger and getting an older version of Bill Self.

Perry always had the ability to shoot 40%+ from 3 on 100 attempts, but we just weren't playing that way at that time. Was able to show it off a little his senior year, and part of that was both he and staff knew he'd need to show it to have any shot at NBA.

Yeah, I wonder how Perry would have looked within our more contemporary 4-out sets.

at the same time, I seem to remember him playing as some sorta outside-in combo forward as much as a traditional PF?

He was def more of a SF/PF type than a PF/C type.

[CrimsonNBlue]

This goes to the game changing in the few years after the twins left, but I think Perry would have also benefitted (at KU) by being a couple years younger and getting an older version of Bill Self.

Perry always had the ability to shoot 40%+ from 3 on 100 attempts, but we just weren't playing that way at that time. Was able to show it off a little his senior year, and part of that was both he and staff knew he'd need to show it to have any shot at NBA.

Yeah, I wonder how Perry would have looked within our more contemporary 4-out sets.

at the same time, I seem to remember him playing as some sorta outside-in combo forward as much as a traditional PF?

He was def more of a SF/PF type than a PF/C type.

The idea was to get him to about the FT line so he could face the basket and work his man off the dribble--he was quite good at getting the angle, which he needed to because of his lack of standing reach and his game being 99% below the rim.

But, especially in his first 3 seasons, those were all 2 big sets starting towards the baseline. He was very much a PF at this level--we were not running the 4 out stuff like we did after he left with, particularly, Josh Jackson and Jalen Wilson.

[ousdahl]

Right on.

I think I got shit for saying this recently, but I think Jalen will end up being a better player than Perry.

I mean shit, Jalen just declared after his freshman year. The mere fact he has that “I’m a pro” mentality suggests much more potential.

[hasbeen]

I was not a fan of watching Perry Ellis play basketball

[ousdahl]

Heck, Perry Ellis wasn’t a fan of watching Perry Ellis play basketball.

[MICHHAWK]

i am a PE fan.

[CrimsonNBlue]

I was not a fan of watching Perry Ellis play basketball

I still think 2015 team (post Cliff-dive) is worse than the (healthy) 2021 team.

Just painful to watch. Perry shooting FT's was the best case scenario. And he shot a ton of them in both 2015 and 16--probably more than anyone named Marcus Morris, and over a 2 year period, probably the most by any Self guy not named Marcus.

[ousdahl]

2015, ugh.

Cliff got cancelled, Selden didn’t improve one bit since freshman year, and we were getting blown out - not only to the UK farm team, but also like at Temple and shit.

Then loosing double digits in the tournament to fuckin Marty Frankamp.

Ugh ugh ugh.

[pdub]

I'm assuming you mean more than any big in 2 years?
Mason ( 16-17 ) 422 FTA.

Simien 380.
Marcus 365.
Ellis 340.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Yeah, I'm sure Frank was easily in the 200's in 2017. Devonte probably in the 200's in 2018 as well.

[ousdahl]

The other day I was thinking what a miracle that 09 team was.

Any other season, if you were told we’d win the conference and make the sweet 16 with no returning starters, just two reserves with a bunch of freshman and Face Ass, you’d think we were cray.

[pdub]

That season was like going to Vegas, playing for three days straight, winning every day, and the last night there, you put all your winnings on red and hit.

Then, the next morning, all hungover, waiting for the car to come pick you up to take you to the airport, you fuck around on a dollar slot machine and win a thousand bucks.