Uncle Joe

[PhDhawk]

The greatness of a nation can be judged by how it treats its weakest members.

(often misattributed to Gandhi)

People won't even get a shot or wear a mask to protect the weakest among us.

[ousdahl]

That’s one metric, and more a matter of individualism. The system at least made the vaccines available to pretty much anyone who wanted them.

That same system is often not so generous.

But that sorta comes back to some more individual level, cuz Mericans are like the only developed country citizens who are complacent with paying taxes but getting not much in return.

[Cascadia]

4 years of dt and almost 1 year of uncle joe, and we are still the greatest country on earth. hands down.

we are bulletproof.

The only people who think/say things like this are people who have no meaningful relationships with non-Americans.

I agree that we have too many advantages to "fail" over the course of the next several generations.

BUT, our fractured and divided house means we're unable to lead on a truly existential threat. And, it seems more likely than not that our failure to lead will have catastrophic consequences.

Also have to consider the source. Old white male.

[Deleted User 89]

how does this country “deal” with our homeless? mental health? childhood hunger? the impoverished? addicts?

too often we deal with them via incarceration and stigmatization rather rehabilitation and support

[ousdahl]

I’ve mentioned before, but far lefties view homelessness not as a personal failure, but a policy failure.

Qusdahl likes to point out things like, there are more vacant homes than there are homeless people, and the money spent on treating homelessness like pest control could be better spent things like mental health, addiction services, or just putting roofs over heads.

Or - and again it’s Qusdahl not me - maybe there could even be policies to avoid predatory landlord practices.

And in terms of both policy and also shared values, maybe housing could be treated less like yet another for-profit commodity, and more just a basic standard available to the citizens of the wealthiest country of all time.

But that Qusdahl is one kooky cat. Not me tho!

[PhDhawk]

I’ve mentioned before, but far lefties view homelessness not as a personal failure, but a policy failure.

Qusdahl likes to point out things like, there are more vacant homes than there are homeless people, and the money spent on treating homelessness like pest control could be better spent things like mental health, addiction services, or just putting roofs over heads.

I actually think mental health disorders, drug addictions, domestic violence, and other health issues have a bigger role than cost of housing directly. Those are possibly also policy failures, but not the type you're alluding to in your second paragraph.

Or - and again it’s Qusdahl not me - maybe there could even be policies to avoid predatory landlord practices.

It varies from state to state, but as has been pointed out to you before, a lot of states have policies that strongly favor the renter over the landlord. I'm sure there are states where it's flipped, by you're presenting it like you want a universal policy while in reality it varies state to state.

And in terms of both policy and also shared values, maybe housing could be treated less like yet another for-profit commodity, and more just a basic standard available to the citizens of the wealthiest country of all time.

But that Qusdahl is one kooky cat. Not me tho!

I think if you really wanted to create a housing shortage the surest way to do that would be to remove the profitability of it.

[Deleted User 89]

re: housing

heard a lot of chatter recently about the airb&b type owners that shoulder a decent amount of the blame for surging prices in some locales, particularly in the mountain west

it’s so much of an issue that communities are enacting stricter ordinances on the number of short-term rental properties allowed

[ousdahl]

Yep, STRs are the bugaboo particularly in the mountain towns.

Yall wealthy out of towners are buying up properties as investments, cuz renting them out to other tourists can actually be pretty good income. And passive income too. (It never ceases to amaze me how many folks own a property they’ve never even been to.)

But the trade-off is, now there’s hardly any housing for local workforces. So next thing you know, yall are throwing a tantrum about the dinner wait cuz there’s no one there to wait tables or flip burgers.

Yet another way the “labor” shortage is actually not a labor shortage at all.

[ousdahl]

And thanks for the dialogue, phd.

I actually think mental health disorders, drug addictions, domestic violence, and other health issues have a bigger role than cost of housing directly. Those are possibly also policy failures, but not the type you're alluding to in your second paragraph

I meant those to be the types of policy failure I was alluding to - not enough mental health or substance abuse resources. Domestic abuse is another one tho.

It varies from state to state, but as has been pointed out to you before, a lot of states have policies that strongly favor the renter over the landlord. I'm sure there are states where it's flipped, by you're presenting it like you want a universal policy while in reality it varies state to state.

Indeed, different states have different policies. Even if they are more “tenant friendly,” the landlord still retains most of the power, just by the very nature of the economic relationship.

I’ve been reading up about it, and in my state, for instance, if a landlord is neglecting to maintain a property (only essential stuff, like heat or water), a tenant has the right to withhold rent until the landlord does. But! - the tenant must give the landlord 10 days notice that they intend to withhold rent for that specific purpose, yet a landlord only has to give 6 days notice if they’re raising rent. And in some states, a landlord has to give prior notice before entering an occupied unit…yet here no notice is required, only the “suggestion” to let a tenant know as a courtesy. (Imagine the look on my face the other night when I was eating dinner and the landlord unlocked the door and just walked in like he owned the place) I’m curious how that also applies to castle doctrine…if a landlord barged in unannounced and a tenant went all 2nd Amendment about it, what then?

I digress.

Cuz more pertinent to this discussion, we should also look up how landlords work and have worked in other countries - in Maoist China, for example. I’m not saying those policies are right or better, but they may have at least achieved the effect of putting roofs over the heads of folks who may otherwise be homeless.

I think if you really wanted to create a housing shortage the surest way to do that would be to remove the profitability of it.

But isn’t that already happening? There’s plenty of profitability in real estate, yet still housing shortages. So rather than cross our fingers and hope the free market eventually lets some housing trickle down too, I think it could be, and maybe has to be, solved by policy? And a reassessment of values too.

Which is more important: letting more people have a roof over their heads, or letting fewer people hoard inventory?

[PhDhawk]

Yep, STRs are the bugaboo particularly in the mountain towns.

Yall wealthy out of towners are buying up properties as investments, cuz renting them out to other tourists can actually be pretty good income. And passive income too. (It never ceases to amaze me how many folks own a property they’ve never even been to.)

But the trade-off is, now there’s hardly any housing for local workforces. So next thing you know, yall are throwing a tantrum about the dinner wait cuz there’s no one there to wait tables or flip burgers.

Yet another way the “labor” shortage is actually not a labor shortage at all.

They also have unfair competitive advantages over hotels, because they aren't regulated to the same extent and don't have to charge the same taxes and fees that hotels often have to do.

[PhDhawk]

And thanks for the dialogue, phd.

I actually think mental health disorders, drug addictions, domestic violence, and other health issues have a bigger role than cost of housing directly. Those are possibly also policy failures, but not the type you're alluding to in your second paragraph

I meant those to be the types of policy failure I was alluding to - not enough mental health or substance abuse resources. Domestic abuse is another one tho.

It varies from state to state, but as has been pointed out to you before, a lot of states have policies that strongly favor the renter over the landlord. I'm sure there are states where it's flipped, by you're presenting it like you want a universal policy while in reality it varies state to state.

Indeed, different states have different policies. Even if they are more “tenant friendly,” the landlord still retains most of the power, just by the very nature of the economic relationship.

I’ve been reading up about it, and in my state, for instance, if a landlord is neglecting to maintain a property (only essential stuff, like heat or water), a tenant has the right to withhold rent until the landlord does. But! - the tenant must give the landlord 10 days notice that they intend to withhold rent for that specific purpose, yet a landlord only has to give 6 days notice if they’re raising rent. And in some states, a landlord has to give prior notice before entering an occupied unit…yet here no notice is required, only the “suggestion” to let a tenant know as a courtesy. (Imagine the look on my face the other night when I was eating dinner and the landlord unlocked the door and just walked in like he owned the place) I’m curious how that also applies to castle doctrine…if a landlord barged in unannounced and a tenant went all 2nd Amendment about it, what then?

I digress.

Cuz more pertinent to this discussion, we should also look up how landlords work and have worked in other countries - in Maoist China, for example. I’m not saying those policies are right or better, but they may have at least achieved the effect of putting roofs over the heads of folks who may otherwise be homeless.

I think if you really wanted to create a housing shortage the surest way to do that would be to remove the profitability of it.

But isn’t that already happening? There’s plenty of profitability in real estate, yet still housing shortages. So rather than cross our fingers and hope the free market eventually lets some housing trickle down too, I think it could be, and maybe has to be, solved by policy? And a reassessment of values too.

Which is more important: letting more people have a roof over their heads, or letting fewer people hoard inventory?

Who's gonna build houses if it's not profitable?
Who's gonna manage properties if it's not profitable? You gonna do it outta the kindness of your heart?

The bigger issue is there aren't enough people building houses. People who rent apartments don't hoard empty apartments, the money is in having as high of an occupancy as possible, so you might need to reassess who it is you're actually mad at.

This is also a very regional thing. It's not everywhere. Not everyone can live in Seattle, Portland, Austin, or Denver.

[ousdahl]

If building houses isn’t profitable, then propose policies to account for that. Perhaps a short term rental tax, or a second home tax? I don’t want new taxes either, but that could take resources from the practices that contribute to housing problems, and reinvest it in solutions.

Bear in mind, anyone well off enough to afford a second home, whether it be to make money renting, and/or to enjoy vacationing there, is well off enough. They can afford to pay a tax that makes it more likely there’s enough staffing to go out to eat on vacation too.

I’ve heard no one is building “starter” homes, either - those modest but totally serviceable 2-3 or so bedroom homes that were and are a staple of the middle class. Now, it’s either big luxury homes or economy apartments, cuz that’s what’s profitable, I guess.

That’s a good point about not hoarding empty apartments, and the money is in the occupancy. But there’s also the issue of these big corporate landlord and realty companies buying up all the available inventory in an area, so they then have some sort of monopoly, and have the ability to manipulate prices and such.

[Deleted User 89]

i posted in another thread that we’re still playing catch up from the construction downturn that resulted after the 2008 crash

we’re something like 20 million houses lower than what we would’ve been otherwise

[zsn]

Who's gonna build houses if it's not profitable?
Who's gonna manage properties if it's not profitable? You gonna do it outta the kindness of your heart?

The bigger issue is there aren't enough people building houses. People who rent apartments don't hoard empty apartments, the money is in having as high of an occupancy as possible, so you might need to reassess who it is you're actually mad at.

This is also a very regional thing. It's not everywhere. Not everyone can live in Seattle, Portland, Austin, or Denver.

How do other capitalist democracies (Canada, Western Europe, Japan, S. Korea, Australia, NZ) do it? Wondering what the homeless rates are in those countries?

[zsn]

greatest country on earth. hands down.

Based on what? Greatest number of prisoners? Greatest number of bankruptcies from not being able to pay for healthcare? Greatest number of deaths by gun violence? Greatest per capita military spending?

[Overlander]

greatest country on earth. hands down.

Based on what? Greatest number of prisoners? Greatest number of bankruptcies from not being able to pay for healthcare? Greatest number of deaths by gun violence? Greatest per capita military spending?

Winning?

[Cascadia]

how does this country “deal” with our homeless? mental health? childhood hunger? the impoverished? addicts?

too often we deal with them via incarceration and stigmatization rather rehabilitation and support

A little late on this one, but this is a great read.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150318142 ... ar-murray/

[Cascadia]

Also a great listen

https://www.pushkin.fm/episode/homeless ... -solvable/

[ousdahl]

[Deleted User 89]

how can Harris even have a job approval? i can’t think of anything she’s done

and fortunately, Biden doesn’t give two shits about his poll numbers so long as he gets things done. infrastructure was big, but if he can get build-back-better through his term will be a success in my eyes

did anyone really think he’d run for a second term? i sure didn’t, and still don’t