Quentin Grimes

[sdoyel]

Overlooked is Grimes terrible post entry passing. It’s bad. Really bad.

I did like MGs ability to drive and get fouled, but agree it’s difficult to start 3 non threats from the perimeter.

Time for Grimes to do some soul searching over the break.

[Deleted User 89]

i’d like to see some different offensive sets...so sick of the weave, particularly with this personelle.

hopefully the break gives them the opportunity to get some new looks installed. but Self isn’t the one playing the game, and if everyone other than Dotson and Garrett continue to settle for jumpers, we’ll continue to have more of the same frustrations

[chiknbut]

i’d like to see some different offensive sets...so sick of the weave, particularly with this personelle.

hopefully the break gives them the opportunity to get some new looks installed. but Self isn’t the one playing the game, and if everyone other than Dotson and Garrett continue to settle for jumpers, we’ll continue to have more of the same frustrations

You do realize how many scoring opportunities come out of the supposed "weave," right?

It's like the guy on here last year who complained about how predictable it was when Self would call in a "4-1" from the bench. If you don't know that there are more than a half dozen scoring opportunities out of one offensive set, you should probably log off.

[Deleted User 104]

i’d like to see some different offensive sets...so sick of the weave, particularly with this personelle.

Ugh, yes. Bill relies on it too much when we're in trouble.

[Deleted User 89]

i’d like to see some different offensive sets...so sick of the weave, particularly with this personelle.

hopefully the break gives them the opportunity to get some new looks installed. but Self isn’t the one playing the game, and if everyone other than Dotson and Garrett continue to settle for jumpers, we’ll continue to have more of the same frustrations

You do realize how many scoring opportunities come out of the supposed "weave," right?

It's like the guy on here last year who complained about how predictable it was when Self would call in a "4-1" from the bench. If you don't know that there are more than a half dozen scoring opportunities out of one offensive set, you should probably log off.

yes, i do

does Grimes?

[chiknbut]

i’d like to see some different offensive sets...so sick of the weave, particularly with this personelle.

Ugh, yes. Bill relies on it too much when we're in trouble.

Case in point.

[jfish26]

So: at what point in the season do we have to figure a player is what he is? Is it behind us?

[CrimsonNBlue]

Not quite yet. Kelly came together towards the beginning-middle of conference. Look how bad Malik was exactly a year ago, too.

[PhDhawk]

Agree. Even if he never reaches the level we all hoped for, I continue to expect him to make significant improvement as the season goes on.

[twocoach]

So: at what point in the season do we have to figure a player is what he is? Is it behind us?

When the season ends. DeSousa figured things out the last 2 weeks of the year. Malik Newman stunk until he didn't. Grumes may only have 1 great game all year but if it happens at the perfect time then I will be thrilled.

[jfish26]

So: at what point in the season do we have to figure a player is what he is? Is it behind us?

When the season ends. DeSousa figured things out the last 2 weeks of the year. Malik Newman stunk until he didn't. Grumes may only have 1 great game all year but if it happens at the perfect time then I will be thrilled.

I might not have said what I meant the right way. I guess what I mean is at what point would any great games be a bonus, as compared with being the expectation? In other words, at what point does Bill stop counting on Grimes being a consistent stud, which was very much the expectation (and a reasonable one) from the start?

[PhDhawk]

What I really wish I knew was the pie graph, showing what % of this is shaken confidence, overthinking/adjusting to speed of college game, learning curve, and how much of this is, as JFish says, just who he is?

I mean, was he just way overrated or is he just struggling. The flashes of being very good (the MSU game) suggest the latter, while the prolonged nature of it suggests the former.

My guess is we'll know better during conference play.

[CrimsonNBlue]

So: at what point in the season do we have to figure a player is what he is? Is it behind us?

When the season ends. DeSousa figured things out the last 2 weeks of the year. Malik Newman stunk until he didn't. Grumes may only have 1 great game all year but if it happens at the perfect time then I will be thrilled.

I might not have said what I meant the right way. I guess what I mean is at what point would any great games be a bonus, as compared with being the expectation? In other words, at what point does Bill stop counting on Grimes being a consistent stud, which was very much the expectation (and a reasonable one) from the start?

I guess the good news is that with Dotson being so far ahead of schedule it looks like we're going to be OK even nationally if Grimes remaining great games are very few and far between.

[jfish26]

Agree - I was genuinely worried Dotson would end up getting buried in the earlygoing. That was a shit prediction.

[jfish26]

What I really wish I knew was the pie graph, showing what % of this is shaken confidence, overthinking/adjusting to speed of college game, learning curve, and how much of this is, as JFish says, just who he is?

I mean, was he just way overrated or is he just struggling. The flashes of being very good (the MSU game) suggest the latter, while the prolonged nature of it suggests the former.

My guess is we'll know better during conference play.

What's worrisome to me is that we rarely even see flashes of elite talent from him; if all I knew of Grimes was the tape he's made this year, I couldn't tell you exactly what NBA skill he could hang his hat on.

I understand conversations around here tend to frame things in an NBA light to a disproportionate degree, but for better or worse that's how basketball works. Grimes isn't sticking around 3+ years to develop into something great at this level.

And, Lord, the make-it-in-the-NBA line for a jack of all trades type (if that's what he is? honestly I can't tell) is a tough one.

[Mjl]

I was thinking that during the u18s, despite him winning mvp. I don't quite understand where the expectations come from. Not a great shooter, not super quick, not a great leaper... ? Am I missing something?

[PhDhawk]

I'm surprised that the things on his scouting report haven't really been evident, even ones that aren't necessarily basketball specific,.

He is supposed to be an explosive athlete and we haven't seen that. His size is great under the assumption that he's a 1/2...seeing that he's more of a 2/3, his size seems to only be adequate at the next level.

And in terms of basketball specific things, he was touted as a great on ball defender, and the nicest thing I can say about his on-ball defense is that it isn't as bad as off the ball. He was supposed to be great at pick and roll, and creating offense, and maybe that's on Self that he hasn't gotten to do those things.

He's shown great vision/passing here and there...and his one weakness was supposed to be perimeter shooting...and he went off against MSU. So...there's a big part of me that thinks all the scouts were just off in their assessment of Grimes.

[jfish26]

I'm surprised that the things on his scouting report haven't really been evident, even ones that aren't necessarily basketball specific,.

He is supposed to be an explosive athlete and we haven't seen that. His size is great under the assumption that he's a 1/2...seeing that he's more of a 2/3, his size seems to only be adequate at the next level.

And in terms of basketball specific things, he was touted as a great on ball defender, and the nicest thing I can say about his on-ball defense is that it isn't as bad as off the ball. He was supposed to be great at pick and roll, and creating offense, and maybe that's on Self that he hasn't gotten to do those things.

He's shown great vision/passing here and there...and his one weakness was supposed to be perimeter shooting...and he went off against MSU. So...there's a big part of me that thinks all the scouts were just off in their assessment of Grimes.

I agree with all of this. So far, I think what I've bolded above is the clearest takeaway, and I'd expand it to apply beyond size. I guess what was supposed to be special about Grimes is that he could do things at his size that are more common for smaller guards. If he's not really a guard - even a secondary ballhandling type - then his stuff really plays down.

[PhDhawk]

Which I think is still a huge unanswered question. Is Grimes a very average college wing, or is he a square peg being forced in to a round hole, in that he's best suited to be a ball handling, playmaking PG?

[CrimsonNBlue]

Could be a bad system fit. So far I'd think he'd look a little better in Calipari's dribble drive.

Bill's off-guard has always needed to be able to shoot: Chalmers, Sherron, Reed, Graham.

When Selby wasn't making jump shots, he became worthless. Selden never fit in here at the 2.