This should surprise no one. This judge is a straight Qanon nut job
Kenosha
Re: Kenosha
"Did he swing the chain at you when he made the second threat?,” Binger asked.
"He did not," Rittenhouse replied.
"Did he physically touch you when he made the second threat?"
"No, he didn't,” Rittenhouse answered.
"In fact, that entire evening he never once touched your body, did he?,” Binger asked.
"He grabbed my gun when he attacked me,” Rittenhouse said.
"And that is why I asked the question the way I did. He never touched your body that night correct?,” Binger asked.
“He didn't touch me physically,” Rittenhouse said.
Binger also asked Rittenhouse if Rosenbaum had any type of weapon other than the chain Rittenhouse believed he had and whether Rosenbaum charged at him or was physically aggressive toward him.
Rittenhouse said he did not.
"He did not," Rittenhouse replied.
"Did he physically touch you when he made the second threat?"
"No, he didn't,” Rittenhouse answered.
"In fact, that entire evening he never once touched your body, did he?,” Binger asked.
"He grabbed my gun when he attacked me,” Rittenhouse said.
"And that is why I asked the question the way I did. He never touched your body that night correct?,” Binger asked.
“He didn't touch me physically,” Rittenhouse said.
Binger also asked Rittenhouse if Rosenbaum had any type of weapon other than the chain Rittenhouse believed he had and whether Rosenbaum charged at him or was physically aggressive toward him.
Rittenhouse said he did not.
Re: Kenosha
Oh, cuz Kyle said he believed Rosenbaum’s plastic bag was actually a chain
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Deleted User 89
Re: Kenosha
The trial of Kyle Rittenhouse in Kenosha, Wis., should make any person with an ounce of sense feel little but grief, even despair. But unfortunately, if Rittenhouse gets acquitted, what happens afterward will be absolutely sickening.
Here’s a quick review of the undisputed facts in the case. As protests gripped Kenosha in the wake of the police shooting of Jacob Blake last August, Rittenhouse, then 17, took his illegally obtained AR-15 and traveled to the city from his home in Illinois. In the midst of the chaotic events, he shot Joseph Rosenbaum, Anthony Huber and Gaige Grosskreutz. Rosenbaum and Huber died, while Grosskreutz survived.
Rittenhouse took the stand on Tuesday in his trial to argue that he feared for his life all three times and killed only in self-defense. There’s a good chance that he will prevail; there’s no question that the confrontations were angry (especially after a crowd saw him kill Rosenbaum and pursued him), and while “I was afraid” may not be quite the get-out-of-jail-free card for civilians that it is for police officers, it carries a lot of weight in both the law and the minds of juries.
I’m not a conservative, but if I was, I would hope my thoughts about Kyle Rittenhouse would run something like this: “The violence that occurred in Kenosha was unacceptable, but that doesn’t justify vigilantism. Rittenhouse was a dumb kid pumped up by the fantasy of saving the day with his gun, but he didn’t go there intending to murder anyone. He should be acquitted because he acted in self-defense, but we shouldn’t forget that two people are dead, which is a terrible tragedy.”
That’s not my opinion, but I do think it’s about the most generous gloss you can honestly put on those events.
Unfortunately, it’s not how conservatives approached this story. From the moment Rittenhouse killed Rosenbaum and Huber, he has been embraced by the right as a hero .
The Trump administration immediately distributed talking points to federal law enforcement officials to use if asked about Rittenhouse, in which they were instructed to say that he “took his rifle to the scene of the rioting to help defend small business owners.”
Conservatives quickly raised much of the $2 million for his bail. After he was released, Rittenhouse went to a bar wearing a T-shirt that said “Free as F---,” where he posed for pictures flashing a white power sign and was “serenaded” with the anthem of the Proud Boys, the violent radical right-wing group.
On Fox News and other conservative media, one personality after another rushed to his defense. Rittenhouse, said Jeanine Pirro, “is an innocent man, he’s looking to help, he’s all-American, and he’s trying to just make sure his town is safe.” This is a weird tick of Rittenhouse’s defenders, who repeatedly insist he was trying to secure “his town” or “his community” despite the fact that he does not live in Kenosha or even the state of Wisconsin. “You’ve got a little boy out there trying to protect his community,” Trump adviser Pam Bondi said in an appearance on “Hannity.”
Rittenhouse “should walk away a free and rich man after suing for malicious prosecution. That would be true justice in this case,” said Matt Walsh of the Daily Wire. “Kyle Rittenhouse went to Kenosha to clean up the filth left by the rioting Biden voters,” said Tucker Carlson. This has been the message over and over from the right: We’re not saying we’re glad he killed two people, but those people kind of deserved to die and he’s a hero.
So try to imagine what will happen if Rittenhouse is acquitted. Trump will issue a statement somehow taking credit for it. Fox News will fly Rittenhouse to New York for triumphant interviews. Social media will erupt with joy, as millions of conservatives cry “Suck it, libs!” He’ll appear on T-shirts and bumper stickers; maybe he’ll speak at the next Conservative Political Action Conference. And don’t be surprised if Trumpist candidates start seeking Rittenhouse’s endorsement and asking him to appear on the campaign trail with them.
There will be some Republicans who will respond to questions about Rittenhouse by saying the whole thing was an unfortunate episode and we should just put it behind us. But they will be drowned out.
Liberals see in Kyle Rittenhouse’s story a number of things: the foolishness of youth, the fetishization of guns, the inevitable consequence of the right’s celebration of violence as an appropriate way to fight what they see as a civilizational war with the left. But what do conservatives see in this story?
If he’s acquitted, they’ll see little more than another opportunity to Own the Libs. And it will be all the more likely that more deluded right-wingers will show up to protests, armed and looking for trouble.
via WashPo
Here’s a quick review of the undisputed facts in the case. As protests gripped Kenosha in the wake of the police shooting of Jacob Blake last August, Rittenhouse, then 17, took his illegally obtained AR-15 and traveled to the city from his home in Illinois. In the midst of the chaotic events, he shot Joseph Rosenbaum, Anthony Huber and Gaige Grosskreutz. Rosenbaum and Huber died, while Grosskreutz survived.
Rittenhouse took the stand on Tuesday in his trial to argue that he feared for his life all three times and killed only in self-defense. There’s a good chance that he will prevail; there’s no question that the confrontations were angry (especially after a crowd saw him kill Rosenbaum and pursued him), and while “I was afraid” may not be quite the get-out-of-jail-free card for civilians that it is for police officers, it carries a lot of weight in both the law and the minds of juries.
I’m not a conservative, but if I was, I would hope my thoughts about Kyle Rittenhouse would run something like this: “The violence that occurred in Kenosha was unacceptable, but that doesn’t justify vigilantism. Rittenhouse was a dumb kid pumped up by the fantasy of saving the day with his gun, but he didn’t go there intending to murder anyone. He should be acquitted because he acted in self-defense, but we shouldn’t forget that two people are dead, which is a terrible tragedy.”
That’s not my opinion, but I do think it’s about the most generous gloss you can honestly put on those events.
Unfortunately, it’s not how conservatives approached this story. From the moment Rittenhouse killed Rosenbaum and Huber, he has been embraced by the right as a hero .
The Trump administration immediately distributed talking points to federal law enforcement officials to use if asked about Rittenhouse, in which they were instructed to say that he “took his rifle to the scene of the rioting to help defend small business owners.”
Conservatives quickly raised much of the $2 million for his bail. After he was released, Rittenhouse went to a bar wearing a T-shirt that said “Free as F---,” where he posed for pictures flashing a white power sign and was “serenaded” with the anthem of the Proud Boys, the violent radical right-wing group.
On Fox News and other conservative media, one personality after another rushed to his defense. Rittenhouse, said Jeanine Pirro, “is an innocent man, he’s looking to help, he’s all-American, and he’s trying to just make sure his town is safe.” This is a weird tick of Rittenhouse’s defenders, who repeatedly insist he was trying to secure “his town” or “his community” despite the fact that he does not live in Kenosha or even the state of Wisconsin. “You’ve got a little boy out there trying to protect his community,” Trump adviser Pam Bondi said in an appearance on “Hannity.”
Rittenhouse “should walk away a free and rich man after suing for malicious prosecution. That would be true justice in this case,” said Matt Walsh of the Daily Wire. “Kyle Rittenhouse went to Kenosha to clean up the filth left by the rioting Biden voters,” said Tucker Carlson. This has been the message over and over from the right: We’re not saying we’re glad he killed two people, but those people kind of deserved to die and he’s a hero.
So try to imagine what will happen if Rittenhouse is acquitted. Trump will issue a statement somehow taking credit for it. Fox News will fly Rittenhouse to New York for triumphant interviews. Social media will erupt with joy, as millions of conservatives cry “Suck it, libs!” He’ll appear on T-shirts and bumper stickers; maybe he’ll speak at the next Conservative Political Action Conference. And don’t be surprised if Trumpist candidates start seeking Rittenhouse’s endorsement and asking him to appear on the campaign trail with them.
There will be some Republicans who will respond to questions about Rittenhouse by saying the whole thing was an unfortunate episode and we should just put it behind us. But they will be drowned out.
Liberals see in Kyle Rittenhouse’s story a number of things: the foolishness of youth, the fetishization of guns, the inevitable consequence of the right’s celebration of violence as an appropriate way to fight what they see as a civilizational war with the left. But what do conservatives see in this story?
If he’s acquitted, they’ll see little more than another opportunity to Own the Libs. And it will be all the more likely that more deluded right-wingers will show up to protests, armed and looking for trouble.
via WashPo
Re: Kenosha
That’s the big issue with this trial. Right wing nut jobs are going to show up at protests looking to kill people.
Re: Kenosha
To me the most critical fact right now is how the jury perceives the rosenbaum grabbing Kyle’s gun, and whether that was an aggressive move by rosenbaum that warrants self-defense, or whether anything suggests it was Rosenbaum trying for some defensive move of his own.
At least as far as the murder charges go.
The reckless endangerment hasn’t had as much discussion, but considering it was a kid who admitted he didn’t entirely understand how the gun worked, and other guys saying they had to jump out of the way while Kyle fired off an AR15 in the dark with lots of others around, seems more cut and dry. But I dunno.
The weapons and curfew charges seem like they speak for themselves, but go figure the judge already threw the curfew charge out
That seems kangaroo court-ish, doesn’t it? The judge dismissing the charge on the grounds the prosecution didn’t prove it, even though there’s how many videos of Kyle there, and that the city indeed had a curfew order imposed, didn’t they?
With the whole point of the curfew being, to prevent anyone from going to a volatile situation and getting in trouble
At least as far as the murder charges go.
The reckless endangerment hasn’t had as much discussion, but considering it was a kid who admitted he didn’t entirely understand how the gun worked, and other guys saying they had to jump out of the way while Kyle fired off an AR15 in the dark with lots of others around, seems more cut and dry. But I dunno.
The weapons and curfew charges seem like they speak for themselves, but go figure the judge already threw the curfew charge out
That seems kangaroo court-ish, doesn’t it? The judge dismissing the charge on the grounds the prosecution didn’t prove it, even though there’s how many videos of Kyle there, and that the city indeed had a curfew order imposed, didn’t they?
With the whole point of the curfew being, to prevent anyone from going to a volatile situation and getting in trouble
Re: Kenosha
Yeah, vigilantism is def an issue
But is the correct place to address it, in a criminal court? Does this set some precedent going forward? Wouldnt that have to be like by statute or something?
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Deleted User 89
Re: Kenosha
“ To me the most critical fact right now is how the jury perceives the rosenbaum grabbing Kyle’s gun, and whether that was an aggressive move by rosenbaum that warrants self-defense, or whether anything suggests it was Rosenbaum trying for some defensive move of his own.”
if only we could ask Rosenbaum what his motives were…
if only we could ask Rosenbaum what his motives were…
Re: Kenosha
he could just as easily have testified that he only grabbed the gun once Kyle pointed it at him first
The ironic thing is, Kyle just answered Rosenbaum had not charged him or been physically aggressive
If I was a juror I would make some good faith effort to understand the most precise sequence of events possible, and how the law applies to them.
But I’m afraid most folks have had their minds made up for a while now
The ironic thing is, Kyle just answered Rosenbaum had not charged him or been physically aggressive
If I was a juror I would make some good faith effort to understand the most precise sequence of events possible, and how the law applies to them.
But I’m afraid most folks have had their minds made up for a while now
Re: Kenosha
If I was a prosecutor I would have scrutinized the Kyle assumption that Rosenbaum would have taken his gun
Howd he know that?
Did he say that?
Why would he have taken it if he otherwise wasn’t physically aggressive?
Precisely what effort did he make that made you think he intended to take it? One hand or two? For how long? Are you sure it wasn’t some defensive gesture cuz you pointed first?
Although, he may be legally allowed to point it based on how legal self defense works
Maybe even try to object on grounds of speculation, but I dunno, I dropped out of law school
Howd he know that?
Did he say that?
Why would he have taken it if he otherwise wasn’t physically aggressive?
Precisely what effort did he make that made you think he intended to take it? One hand or two? For how long? Are you sure it wasn’t some defensive gesture cuz you pointed first?
Although, he may be legally allowed to point it based on how legal self defense works
Maybe even try to object on grounds of speculation, but I dunno, I dropped out of law school
Re: Kenosha
I think I would have also asked, if Kyle didn’t wanna hurt anyone, then why’d he pick such a lethal weapon to protect himself
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CWHWox0l ... =copy_link
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CWHWox0l ... =copy_link
Re: Kenosha
And I guess the prosecutor grilled him about if he was there to help then why didn’t he administer first aid to Rosenbaum, and why didnt he call 911 instead of calling his friend
Re: Kenosha
Also, the curfew charge was dropped for no other reason than, prosecutors never presented any evidence that there was a curfew? Who are these guys?
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RainbowsandUnicorns
- Contributor
- Posts: 12450
- Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:19 am
Re: Kenosha
This was a huge head shaking moment for me.
"Judge Schroeder argued that it was the prosecution — not the defense — that had the burden of proving that Apple doesn’t use artificial intelligence to manipulate footage, demanding that they provide an expert to testify, and didn’t allow the prosecution to adjourn to find that expert before bringing Rittenhouse up for cross-examination. The judge suggested that prosecutors could somehow find that expert while they took a brief 20-minute recess. “Maybe you can get someone to testify on this within minutes, I don’t know,” said the judge."
https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/10/227 ... tion-claim
"Judge Schroeder argued that it was the prosecution — not the defense — that had the burden of proving that Apple doesn’t use artificial intelligence to manipulate footage, demanding that they provide an expert to testify, and didn’t allow the prosecution to adjourn to find that expert before bringing Rittenhouse up for cross-examination. The judge suggested that prosecutors could somehow find that expert while they took a brief 20-minute recess. “Maybe you can get someone to testify on this within minutes, I don’t know,” said the judge."
https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/10/227 ... tion-claim
Gutter wrote: Fri Nov 8th 2:16pm
New President - New Gutter. I am going to pledge my allegiance to Donald J. Trump and for the next 4 years I am going to be an even bigger asshole than I already am.
New President - New Gutter. I am going to pledge my allegiance to Donald J. Trump and for the next 4 years I am going to be an even bigger asshole than I already am.
Re: Kenosha
Call me naive, but I think the single most relevant fact is that Rittenhouse went extremely far out of his way to insert himself into this situation. We are regressing so badly as a country when we're encouraging vigilantism, whether in this circumstance or by effectively deputizing private citizens to enforce patently unconstitutional laws.ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:37 pm To me the most critical fact right now is how the jury perceives the rosenbaum grabbing Kyle’s gun, and whether that was an aggressive move by rosenbaum that warrants self-defense, or whether anything suggests it was Rosenbaum trying for some defensive move of his own.
At least as far as the murder charges go.
The reckless endangerment hasn’t had as much discussion, but considering it was a kid who admitted he didn’t entirely understand how the gun worked, and other guys saying they had to jump out of the way while Kyle fired off an AR15 in the dark with lots of others around, seems more cut and dry. But I dunno.
The weapons and curfew charges seem like they speak for themselves, but go figure the judge already threw the curfew charge out
That seems kangaroo court-ish, doesn’t it? The judge dismissing the charge on the grounds the prosecution didn’t prove it, even though there’s how many videos of Kyle there, and that the city indeed had a curfew order imposed, didn’t they?
With the whole point of the curfew being, to prevent anyone from going to a volatile situation and getting in trouble
Re: Kenosha
What I find particularly odd is that I hear a lot of chatter about how the defense is winning yet the defense wants a mistrial (with prejudice isn't going to happen) and the judge is clearly favoring the defense. There were several times yesterday during cross examination that the judge interrupted the prosecutor but couldn't come up with anything meaningful to say and then basically said "ok, continue".
Re: Kenosha
Yea.
There’s that.
I guess my observation about that critical fact was trying to apply this sequence of events to the laws as a matter of a jury question. It has to come through some context of rules of evidence, right?
Cuz yea, it kinda otherwise seems like the entire system is going out of its way to normalize what this kid did.
It almost seems like even the prosecutors are trying to fudge this. For real how did that camp neglect to even provide evidence of curfew?
There’s that.
I guess my observation about that critical fact was trying to apply this sequence of events to the laws as a matter of a jury question. It has to come through some context of rules of evidence, right?
Cuz yea, it kinda otherwise seems like the entire system is going out of its way to normalize what this kid did.
It almost seems like even the prosecutors are trying to fudge this. For real how did that camp neglect to even provide evidence of curfew?
Re: Kenosha
It is pretty fucking sad when an underage kid going across state lines in the middle of the night to an area of tense protests and rioting, with a military style weapon and shot the place up, and the biggest outrage to take away from the situation was that he was even charged.
Fuck around, but don’t find out.
Fuck around, but don’t find out.
Re: Kenosha
Could the prosecution ask for a mistrial without prejudice? Is that a thing? Cuz that might be best. Just hit reset on the whole shitshow.
Cuz with prejudice means the state was basically picking on him, brought the charges not in good faith, and he can’t be tried again.
And it’s crazy how many people think that’s the most appropriate outcome.
Cuz with prejudice means the state was basically picking on him, brought the charges not in good faith, and he can’t be tried again.
And it’s crazy how many people think that’s the most appropriate outcome.
Re: Kenosha
And if Kyle isn’t convicted of anything, I have this feeling it’s just a matter of time til he does something awful again. Or does something just plain stoopid. I’m not sure he’d learn from a bunch of NG verdicts, but would instead take it as validating his actions.