21-22 lineup

[Deleted User 863]

Yeah he is.

And as boned up and hot as I am for Christian Braun, I think our 3 best players still need to be Och Remy and Dave.

Otherwise, I’m afraid we’ll have more games like today where my man crush Braun has a good game, but the overall team effort is futile cuz we still look like shit down the stretch, have no one who can score when we need it, and might even end up loosing more.

I think our best 3 players can be Remy Och and Jalen. Or Dave. Or CB. But Remy and Och #1 and #2 (either order) for sure. But we need Dave to be as good as possible obviously. I've said he's our most important because he's literally our only true big. I may back off that now seeing how good Och is, but in theory it's Dave (important not best).

As far as your 2nd comment...here's the thing: we did have people who could score. Remy and Och both scored down the stretch!...the problem is our coach literally chose to run a play to dump it in to Dave for a close look or to get him fouled. It wasn't a personnel issue, it was a play call issue.

[pdub]

Ochai is number one.
I can't see Remy improving his defense to the level of Ochai.
Maybe Remy eventually scores more ppg ( I think Ochai on a mission here though so prob not ) but Ochai a factor on both ends.

[pdub]

The other problem is it wasnt an offensive foul though.

[Deleted User 863]

I am still excited about this team. Way more nervous, but still excited.

[randylahey]

Yeah he is.

And as boned up and hot as I am for Christian Braun, I think our 3 best players still need to be Och Remy and Dave.

Otherwise, I’m afraid we’ll have more games like today where my man crush Braun has a good game, but the overall team effort is futile cuz we still look like shit down the stretch, have no one who can score when we need it, and might even end up loosing more.

I think our best 3 players can be Remy Och and Jalen. Or Dave. Or CB. But Remy and Och #1 and #2 (either order) for sure. But we need Dave to be as good as possible obviously. I've said he's our most important because he's literally our only true big. I may back off that now seeing how good Och is, but in theory it's Dave (important not best).

As far as your 2nd comment...here's the thing: we did have people who could score. Remy and Och both scored down the stretch!...the problem is our coach literally chose to run a play to dump it in to Dave for a close look or to get him fouled. It wasn't a personnel issue, it was a play call issue.

I agree with you that mccormack needs to be our x factor. we need him to consistently be good more than anyone else. hes been a bit disappointing so far. kind of a lumbering baffoon in the paint at times. for someone as big and experienced as he is, and with good shooting touch, he has been awkward as hell finishing plays. I expected better this year.

now on the other side he has actually surprised me a bit. he has giving us more shot blocking and better rotation on defense than i expected (low expectations) because I think he has bad feet/agility

[Deleted User 863]

Yeah he is.

And as boned up and hot as I am for Christian Braun, I think our 3 best players still need to be Och Remy and Dave.

Otherwise, I’m afraid we’ll have more games like today where my man crush Braun has a good game, but the overall team effort is futile cuz we still look like shit down the stretch, have no one who can score when we need it, and might even end up loosing more.

I think our best 3 players can be Remy Och and Jalen. Or Dave. Or CB. But Remy and Och #1 and #2 (either order) for sure. But we need Dave to be as good as possible obviously. I've said he's our most important because he's literally our only true big. I may back off that now seeing how good Och is, but in theory it's Dave (important not best).

As far as your 2nd comment...here's the thing: we did have people who could score. Remy and Och both scored down the stretch!...the problem is our coach literally chose to run a play to dump it in to Dave for a close look or to get him fouled. It wasn't a personnel issue, it was a play call issue.

I agree with you that mccormack needs to be our x factor. we need him to consistently be good more than anyone else. hes been a bit disappointing so far. kind of a lumbering baffoon in the paint at times. for someone as big and experienced as he is, and with good shooting touch, he has been awkward as hell finishing plays. I expected better this year.

now on the other side he has actually surprised me a bit. he has giving us more shot blocking and better rotation on defense than i expected (low expectations) because I think he has bad feet/agility

Dude is definitely clumsy as fuck.

[Deleted User 89]

Jalen is a big question mark. He was inconsistent last year and the team suffered on occasion. He comes on like Och did, it is hard to be critical right now.

this is why it strikes me as odd that some are already calling for him to take minutes from others

we haven’t seen anything from him yet this season

the TEAM might be better with him in a reduced role

maybe chemistry is a bigger issue than anyone else wanted to believe

[ousdahl]

Player A: 17mpg 4.3ppg 4.0rpg 2apg .7spg

Player B: 27mpg 3ppg 1.1rpg 3.8apg 1.2spg

it's still a small sample size though, particularly cuz player A has played half as many games as player B, and in a reserve role with limited minutes.

Neither has hit a 3 yet this year.

Player A also has the superior size, and is also billed as the fastest guy with the ball, despite not being a guard.

and, pick yer poison here: player A is more likely to take a bad shot, while player B is more likely to not shoot at all.

[Deleted User 863]

Player A: 17mpg 4.3ppg 4.0rpg 2apg .7spg

Player B: 27mpg 3ppg 1.1rpg 3.8apg 1.2spg

it's still a small sample size though, particularly cuz player A has played half as many games as player B, and in a reserve role with limited minutes.

Neither has hit a 3 yet this year.

Player A also has the superior size, and is also billed as the fastest guy with the ball, despite not being a guard.

and, pick yer poison here: player A is more likely to take a bad shot, while player B is more likely to not shoot at all.

So what's your point here? I am assuming that is Jalen and Harris.

And like above post by Trad, chemistry matters. Not everything comes down to 1 on 1 battles based mainly on offense abilities when it comes to who gets playing time.

That's why Harris plays over guys like Yesufu. Yesufu is clearly superior offensively individually, but basketball is a team sport.

3 weeks ago I'd have said similar about CB and why he will play over guys like Yesufu, but turns out CB is just plain better individually as well as better for the players around him. I had high hopes for him and he's surpassed those expectations so far.

If we can get Jalen clicking, Remy Och CB and Jalen are a dynamic 4 headed monster. And if we can get even Landen Lucas level competence out of Dave then I like our team.

[twocoach]

Jalen is a big question mark. He was inconsistent last year and the team suffered on occasion. He comes on like Och did, it is hard to be critical right now.

this is why it strikes me as odd that some are already calling for him to take minutes from others

we haven’t seen anything from him yet this season

the TEAM might be better with him in a reduced role

maybe chemistry is a bigger issue than anyone else wanted to believe

Maybe it's just hard to add so many new faces to a rotation with 4 returning starters, one of whom missed the first three games, and have it clicking on all cylinders in November.

[Deleted User 89]

this is why it strikes me as odd that some are already calling for him to take minutes from others

we haven’t seen anything from him yet this season

the TEAM might be better with him in a reduced role

maybe chemistry is a bigger issue than anyone else wanted to believe

Maybe it's just hard to add so many new faces to a rotation with 4 returning starters, one of whom missed the first three games, and have it clicking on all cylinders in November.

that’s basically the same thing

[PhDhawk]

Player A: 17mpg 4.3ppg 4.0rpg 2apg .7spg

Player B: 27mpg 3ppg 1.1rpg 3.8apg 1.2spg

it's still a small sample size though, particularly cuz player A has played half as many games as player B, and in a reserve role with limited minutes.

Neither has hit a 3 yet this year.

Player A also has the superior size, and is also billed as the fastest guy with the ball, despite not being a guard.

and, pick yer poison here: player A is more likely to take a bad shot, while player B is more likely to not shoot at all.

We need a second combo guard, not a third wing, that seems apparent. I think we need to look into getting Pettiford/Yesefu more minutes over Harris.

Also, Player B has dunked in a game.

[ousdahl]

while I don't disagree that we need a second combo guard, I dunno if that guy going forward is player B, among other reasons cuz that guy's not exactly a combo guard.

and player A is a guy who Self has said is a starter for us, so apparently that's just a matter of time.

this lineup is still pretty up in the air.

[Deleted User 863]

You guys aren't really giving up on Jalen after a few bad games are you?

He's quite clearly one of our 4 best players.

[Deleted User 89]

i agree, but stand by my earlier point that despite his talent he may be hurting chemistry more than helping

maybe msu just really isn’t as good as they’ve been made out to be, but that game sure looked like it was played by a “team” rather than an assemblage of good players

[Deleted User 863]

Harris is probably better at individual/team defense than Yesufu and/or Pettiford which is why he plays over both of them.

I also think part of the reason we can't get Harris off the floor more (in favor of Jalen) is that Remy is still adjusting and that limits us if he is the main initiator of team offense so at times it becomes difficult to have Remy as the lead guard. I think each game that goes by that lessens and within a few weeks Remy should be fully comfortable. I notice him looking lost much less, but obviously judging by the botched end of game play where he didn't know where to go against Dayton, it is still occuring and likely more than we notice as fans. Iirc there was a turnover (can't remember which game) not by Remy directly, but Self looked right at him and said "that's your fault". I have faith he will continue to adjust.

Harris can't be in at end of game scenarios offensively. Self better figure that out in a hurry and get comfortable with whoever he wants to replace him with in those scenarios (hopefully Jalen).

[pdub]

If it's just offense, i'd have rather seen Jalen Coleman Lands at the moment.
He's shooting 25% from 3 but I can remember several of those that spiraled in and around the bucket and just spun out unfortunately.

I have faith Jalen will round into form and be more a factor eventually.

[ousdahl]

In Jalen’s first game back, he seemed to integrate pretty well right back into the team.

He had one bad game and apparently on a lot of shit lists because of it.

And while he’s more of a wing or forward than a guard, he still brings a net gain in terms of ball handling abilities.

He might also end up being the best slasher on the team.

And while I guess Harris has been reliable about certain things, I’m also concerned we’re once again giving big minutes to a guy who’s not a scoring threat, and the other team can get away with barely guarding him. even if he’s “reliable” or whatever, he’s still just not very productive

[PhDhawk]

If it's just offense, i'd have rather seen Jalen Coleman Lands at the moment.
He's shooting 25% from 3 but I can remember several of those that spiraled in and around the bucket and just spun out unfortunately.

I have faith Jalen will round into form and be more a factor eventually.

I also think he complements the other starters better. Lot's of redundancies between och Braun and wilson.

[Deleted User 863]

And while I guess Harris has been reliable about certain things, I’m also concerned we’re once again giving big minutes to a guy who’s not a scoring threat, and the other team can get away with barely guarding him. even if he’s “reliable” or whatever, he’s still just not very productive

I am not a fan of Harris' skill set individually, but we don't need scoring from every person in the rotation if we have Och at 20+ppg and Remy/CB/Wilson all doing their part. So him getting big minutes isn't as much of an issue on this team imo.

Now in end of game situations, i agree 100% you can't have a non scoring threat on the floor because it hurts the other 4 guys ability to get good looks.