21-22 lineup

[InfiniteJ]

I don't know that I want Wilson to be more than a decent piece off the bench; it seems like CB's best position is at the 4 where he creates mismatches on offense and can hold his own on defense. I want Wilson to break out of his slump, but not at the expense of CB.

[Deleted User 863]

We switch 1-4 on almost every possession defensively and i haven't noticed CB operate out of different spots offensively when JW is in the game with him. I don't think JW coming back hurts CB much if any.

[randylahey]

Pettiford out 4-5 weeks with abdominal strain.

Get ready for lots of Yes

yesss. I like pettiford a lot. but i feel like self fell in love with him too fast. yesefu and JCL are better players right now. they just need more minutes and opportunity to adjust to selfs system

[TDub]

I dunno...I feel like half the board is basing yesufu on what they want him to be and not what he has been. I hope he takes a step forward and plays as well as we hope. I hate losing Bobby, I think his long term potential is as high as anyone on the team. For a true freshman he has played very well and was only going to improve.

[Deleted User 89]

yeah, i’m not seeing what folks like randy are outta Yesufu

he hasn’t impressed me much at all

[Deleted User 863]

yeah, i’m not seeing what folks like randy are outta Yesufu

he hasn’t impressed me much at all

I think the potential is there to be a good player for us in the future, just maybe not this year. Which isn't really a knock on him since we've had 1 and done caliber players come in and have trouble doing what Self wants out of them to earn playing time, and transfers have similar learning curves.

It seems people are sort of split. They either really like Pettiford or really like Yesufu. Neither are good enough yet to push Harris for his minutes, but each struggles in different areas. Pettiford doesn't seem to be any better of a shooter than Harris, but can get to the rim and score. Yesufu is a better scorer than Harris, but with just about everything else (including offensive and defensive concepts) Harris is superior right now.

Once we settle in, and i think we will, Yesufu and Pettiford are really only battling for about 15min of game time (in close games) max i think. The rotation will tighten, and Self will want Remy on the court for 30-33min and Harris for his promised 20-25min. And eventually Jalen will break out of his funk and be getting his 30ish min. Och and CB appear to be heading towards max minutes territory like we did with Frank and Devonte.

I think the intriguing battles are in the front court. Can Clemence push Mitch/Dave and steal some minutes? Will KJ earn some minutes? Are we going to play a handful of minutes a game with KJ and Dave together (we just tried it last game or the game before iirc)?

[jfish26]

yeah, i’m not seeing what folks like randy are outta Yesufu

he hasn’t impressed me much at all

I think the potential is there to be a good player for us in the future, just maybe not this year. Which isn't really a knock on him since we've had 1 and done caliber players come in and have trouble doing what Self wants out of them to earn playing time, and transfers have similar learning curves.

It seems people are sort of split. They either really like Pettiford or really like Yesufu. Neither are good enough yet to push Harris for his minutes, but each struggles in different areas. Pettiford doesn't seem to be any better of a shooter than Harris, but can get to the rim and score. Yesufu is a better scorer than Harris, but with just about everything else (including offensive and defensive concepts) Harris is superior right now.

Once we settle in, and i think we will, Yesufu and Pettiford are really only battling for about 15min of game time (in close games) max i think. The rotation will tighten, and Self will want Remy on the court for 30-33min and Harris for his promised 20-25min. And eventually Jalen will break out of his funk and be getting his 30ish min. Och and CB appear to be heading towards max minutes territory like we did with Frank and Devonte.

I think the intriguing battles are in the front court. Can Clemence push Mitch/Dave and steal some minutes? Will KJ earn some minutes? Are we going to play a handful of minutes a game with KJ and Dave together (we just tried it last game or the game before iirc)?

I'll preface by saying: I love Clemence. Goofy tall dudes that rain threes are really fun, and I think Clemence is going to have a very nice career here and perhaps beyond.

BUT.

I don't know how anyone who's followed Self over his time here looks at Clemence on the other end and thinks he has any shot at rotation minutes this year, when things get serious.

[Deleted User 863]

BUT.

I don't know how anyone who's followed Self over his time here looks at Clemence on the other end and thinks he has any shot at rotation minutes this year, when things get serious.

Because we have only 2 big guys clearly ahead of him (Dave and Mitch) and Dave in his 99 games at KU has only played 30min or more 5 times. Maybe it ends up being KJ and not Clemence....but Dave and Mitch alone probably aren't enough (bad matchups, fouls, injury, sickness, etc), and after lots of predictions about JW as a 5 he has played 2 entire minutes at the 5 and both were in his first game back and we haven't tried it again because our defensive bounding and defense in general was so bad when we tried it. Plus Clemence can't be much worse at post defense than JW. And we maintain versatility if we play clemence or KJ at the 5 with Och CB and JW all out there with Remy/Harris. That isn't a small lineup. We can still switch 1-5 or 1-4 and have length to hopefully grab some defensive rebounds on the interior.


Maybe Dave and Mitch consume 100% of the minutes at the 5 going forward, but i sort of hope not. Clemence and KJ can mayne add some things those 2 can't if they can continue to improve. It's only December 7th.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Would rather see Jalen at the 5 than Adams.

Clemence needs to get stronger, but I agree he needs to be getting reps to see if he can handle it better than Mitch.

[jfish26]

BUT.

I don't know how anyone who's followed Self over his time here looks at Clemence on the other end and thinks he has any shot at rotation minutes this year, when things get serious.

Because we have only 2 big guys clearly ahead of him (Dave and Mitch) and Dave in his 99 games at KU has only played 30min or more 5 times. Maybe it ends up being KJ and not Clemence....but Dave and Mitch alone probably aren't enough (bad matchups, fouls, injury, sickness, etc), and after lots of predictions about JW as a 5 he has played 2 entire minutes at the 5 and both were in his first game back and we haven't tried it again because our defensive bounding and defense in general was so bad when we tried it. Plus Clemence can't be much worse at post defense than JW. And we maintain versatility if we play clemence or KJ at the 5 with Och CB and JW all out there with Remy/Harris. That isn't a small lineup. We can still switch 1-5 or 1-4 and have length to hopefully grab some defensive rebounds on the interior.

Maybe Dave and Mitch consume 100% of the minutes at the 5 going forward, but i sort of hope not. Clemence and KJ can mayne add some things those 2 can't if they can continue to improve. It's only December 7th.

I'm not saying that burying Clemence is the right approach. But, based on everything we know about Bill, it is going to be the approach.

[CrimsonNBlue]

We just have to stop signing these Jamari Traylor, Mitch Lightfoot, Dajuan Harris types that Bill can't help himself around.

[Deleted User 863]

BUT.

I don't know how anyone who's followed Self over his time here looks at Clemence on the other end and thinks he has any shot at rotation minutes this year, when things get serious.

Because we have only 2 big guys clearly ahead of him (Dave and Mitch) and Dave in his 99 games at KU has only played 30min or more 5 times. Maybe it ends up being KJ and not Clemence....but Dave and Mitch alone probably aren't enough (bad matchups, fouls, injury, sickness, etc), and after lots of predictions about JW as a 5 he has played 2 entire minutes at the 5 and both were in his first game back and we haven't tried it again because our defensive bounding and defense in general was so bad when we tried it. Plus Clemence can't be much worse at post defense than JW. And we maintain versatility if we play clemence or KJ at the 5 with Och CB and JW all out there with Remy/Harris. That isn't a small lineup. We can still switch 1-5 or 1-4 and have length to hopefully grab some defensive rebounds on the interior.

Maybe Dave and Mitch consume 100% of the minutes at the 5 going forward, but i sort of hope not. Clemence and KJ can mayne add some things those 2 can't if they can continue to improve. It's only December 7th.

I'm not saying that burying Clemence is the right approach. But, based on everything we know about Bill, it is going to be the approach.

We are only talking about 10mpg or so for whoever between Clemence and KJ emerge. Clemence and KJ already both average 5min. Mitch only averaging 11mpg. Dave averaging just under 20. Their averages come out to exactly 40min so i don't think JW increase in minutes will necessarily come from the Clemence KJ Mitch bucket.

For reference guard wise Pettiford has averaged 11mpg and Yesufu 9mpg so far.

[Deleted User 863]

We just have to stop signing these Jamari Traylor, Mitch Lightfoot, Dajuan Harris types that Bill can't help himself around.

Those are the types of players that have made him a great coach. You're picking out the examples where there is negative associated with it.

Coming in, Frank and Devonte were the Harris types. They weren't highly ranked.

And i still think the Jamari hate is over the top. He wasn't good, but Diallo and Cliff didn't turn out to have all this potential that many predicted. They are making money overseas just like Jamari is. Jamari was better for those teams in Self's eyes. Hard to argue with the results over time.

And fwiw Jamari only averaged 10min, 16min, 20min, and 14min is his 4 years. He wasn't playing him 25-30mpg.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Illy, one thing I don't understand about your approach is the "well it's only 10 minutes or 15 minutes a game, so who cares."

That's a good amount of game time well worthy of discussion and absolutely affects how good we are throughout the season--analytics, seeding, etc.

[CrimsonNBlue]

We just have to stop signing these Jamari Traylor, Mitch Lightfoot, Dajuan Harris types that Bill can't help himself around.

Those are the types of players that have made him a great coach.

Saving this.

[Deleted User 863]

We just have to stop signing these Jamari Traylor, Mitch Lightfoot, Dajuan Harris types that Bill can't help himself around.

Those are the types of players that have made him a great coach.

Saving this.

What was Franks ranking before he committed? Devontes? Darnell Jacksons?

The Jamaris Mitchs and Harris type players are exactly the types he was getting at Illinois which gave him a chance to coach at Kansas.

At Kansas you need both. And we've had both.

The idea that he's playing those players over guys who actually make us better is likely a false assumption made by fans who don't watch practice, and don't understand game plans or the aspect of knowing our offense and defense so that the sum of the parts is as good as it can be.

[Deleted User 863]

Illy, one thing I don't understand about your approach is the "well it's only 10 minutes or 15 minutes a game, so who cares."

That's a good amount of game time well worthy of discussion and absolutely affects how good we are throughout the season--analytics, seeding, etc.

For which scenario?

The Clemence/KJ discussion?

Or the Jamari discussion?

[Deleted User 863]

During their time at Kansas who was better for the team?...

Jamari or Diallo?
Jamari or Cliff?

If Diallo and Cliff had stuck around (or been able to/willing to) then they eventually wouldn't have been getting minutes shaved off by guys like Jamari and Landen. But they didn't.

[MICHHAWK]

every team needs role players.

[ousdahl]

Thinking about changing my sig to “my favorite player is Dajuan Harris”

That way, he’ll either get the sig treatment and begin actually looking like a legit high major starter, OR you guys will go all “Qusdahl I told you we shouldn’t be throwing big starter minutes to a guy who currently averages 2 points a game just cuz he’s your favorite!”

Either way, the desire to see Joe (or Bobby or any guard who can score) get minutes is less about what all he’s done so far, and more about anyone can see this team’s ceiling is a lot higher with guards who can actually score, so we don’t have to play so much 5 on 4.

I mean shit, even Dajuan himself has said that!