21-22 lineup

[CrimsonNBlue]

The idea that he's playing those players over guys who actually make us better is likely a false assumption made by fans who don't watch practice, and don't understand game plans or the aspect of knowing our offense and defense so that the sum of the parts is as good as it can be.

But playing guys that play like sub top-100 players while at KU over more talented players consistently bites him in the ass.

He's in the 95th percentile of coaching, I get it. But every coach has his/her flaw(s).

[Deleted User 863]

The idea that he's playing those players over guys who actually make us better is likely a false assumption made by fans who don't watch practice, and don't understand game plans or the aspect of knowing our offense and defense so that the sum of the parts is as good as it can be.

But playing guys that play like sub top-100 players while at KU over more talented players consistently bites him in the ass.

He's in the 95th percentile of coaching, I get it. But every coach has his/her flaw(s).

There is absolutely no way you can say with any degree of certainty that playing Jamari or Landen over Diallo or Cliff resulted in a worse season than had he played them more over guys that individually may have seemed to have more future potential. In fact it's quite likely the opposite would have been the result.

Basketball is a TEAM sport. It doesn't matter if Cliff can beat Jamari 1 on 1.

[ousdahl]

Cliff was coming on as a good player until The Rules struck.

In hindsight, Cheick woulda been awful nice to have up to speed against Nova.

[ousdahl]

Ultimately, I think there’s some fundamental question of what the short leash treatment does to a player.

And of whether or how much in-game reps matters to development.

[CrimsonNBlue]

The idea that he's playing those players over guys who actually make us better is likely a false assumption made by fans who don't watch practice, and don't understand game plans or the aspect of knowing our offense and defense so that the sum of the parts is as good as it can be.

But playing guys that play like sub top-100 players while at KU over more talented players consistently bites him in the ass.

He's in the 95th percentile of coaching, I get it. But every coach has his/her flaw(s).

There is absolutely no way you can say with any degree of certainty that playing Jamari or Landen over Diallo or Cliff resulted in a worse season than had he played them more over guys that individually may have seemed to have more future potential. In fact it's quite likely the opposite would have been the result.

Basketball is a TEAM sport. It doesn't matter if Cliff can beat Jamari 1 on 1.

By this logic, nothing can be questioned. Ever.

Shut the board down, none of this even matters!

Also, I think you'd get less shit from people by keeping the condescension in check. Many of us have been watching/playing basketball for a long, long time TEAM Sport Bro.

[MICHHAWK]

cheek dealio and cliff alexander are two of the most forgettable characters to have held a scholarship at KU in the last 20 years.

[ousdahl]

cheek dealio lol

[Deleted User 863]

But playing guys that play like sub top-100 players while at KU over more talented players consistently bites him in the ass.

He's in the 95th percentile of coaching, I get it. But every coach has his/her flaw(s).

There is absolutely no way you can say with any degree of certainty that playing Jamari or Landen over Diallo or Cliff resulted in a worse season than had he played them more over guys that individually may have seemed to have more future potential. In fact it's quite likely the opposite would have been the result.

Basketball is a TEAM sport. It doesn't matter if Cliff can beat Jamari 1 on 1.

By this logic, nothing can be questioned. Ever.

Shut the board down, none of this even matters!

Also, I think you'd get less shit from people by keeping the condescension in check. Many of us have been watching/playing basketball for a long, long time TEAM Sport Bro.

The year Jamari and Landen played over Diallo we finished 1st in the final AP poll.

The year Jamari/Landen played over Cliff we finished 10th in the final AP poll.

Those aren't bad seasons. Certainly not "getting bit in the ass" bad. Nobody wins national titles every single year.

How come nobody complains that we played Darnell and Sasha over Cole in 2008 even though Cole had more undeveloped potential? What were Darnell and Sashas HS rankings coming in?

[CrimsonNBlue]

How come nobody complains that we played Darnell and Sasha over Cole in 2008 even though Cole had more undeveloped potential? What were Darnell and Sashas HS rankings coming in?

They were top 50 recruits, Sasha and Cole were ranked around 30. Darnell 50.

But, that's not the point. At all. Sasha and Darnell played like frontline starters while at KU. It's a flawed comparison.

[Mjl]

Top 60. Both.

[Deleted User 863]

Cliff was coming on as a good player until The Rules struck.

In hindsight, Cheick woulda been awful nice to have up to speed against Nova.

LOL

That Nova game didn't come down to Diallo.

The answer isn't always sitting on the bench. Sometimes other teams are better. Sometimes the shots don't drop.

Plus, Diallo and Cliff didn't end up being NBA rotation players like everyone predicted they would.

It's not like Self sat Wiggins for some crappy player. The players who make our TEAM the best play the most minutes.

[ousdahl]

Yea.

That Nova game didn’t come down to Perry or Jamari either

[Deleted User 863]

Yea.

That Nova game didn’t come down to Perry or Jamari either

Ya Perry sucked. He was still a consensus AA. Bad games happen. And Nova wasn't some scrubb team. They had multiple NBA guys on that roster.

Josh Hart, Jalen Brunson, and Mikal Bridges are all legit NBA players. Devonte is the only guy from the Kansas side having an NBA career that is similar/better than those 3.


Oh and Jamari played only 5min. Bragg (more potential) played 6min.

[jfish26]

Cliff was coming on as a good player until The Rules struck.

In hindsight, Cheick woulda been awful nice to have up to speed against Nova.

LOL

That Nova game didn't come down to Diallo.

The answer isn't always sitting on the bench. Sometimes other teams are better. Sometimes the shots don't drop.

Plus, Diallo and Cliff didn't end up being NBA rotation players like everyone predicted they would.

It's not like Self sat Wiggins for some crappy player. The players who make our TEAM the best play the most minutes.

Lotta point-missing here. You guys are talking past each other.

To me, one of Self's consistent issues has been prioritizing November-January wins over maximizing the March-April ceiling. Burying talent in favor of security blankets is absolutely a big piece of that.

[twocoach]

Cliff was coming on as a good player until The Rules struck.

In hindsight, Cheick woulda been awful nice to have up to speed against Nova.

LOL

That Nova game didn't come down to Diallo.

The answer isn't always sitting on the bench. Sometimes other teams are better. Sometimes the shots don't drop.

Plus, Diallo and Cliff didn't end up being NBA rotation players like everyone predicted they would.

It's not like Self sat Wiggins for some crappy player. The players who make our TEAM the best play the most minutes.

Lotta point-missing here. You guys are talking past each other.

To me, one of Self's consistent issues has been prioritizing November-January wins over maximizing the March-April ceiling. Burying talent in favor of security blankets is absolutely a big piece of that.

If your message is "the player who figures out how to play defense and perform in the offense will play" then you had better be consistent with that message. More experienced players have the advantage earlier on but Self has frequently allowed the "better" players to gain more minutes and bigger roles as they have earned them. This whole notion that Self is stuck in his ways on this issue is dumb. He regularly proves it wrong.

[jfish26]

LOL

That Nova game didn't come down to Diallo.

The answer isn't always sitting on the bench. Sometimes other teams are better. Sometimes the shots don't drop.

Plus, Diallo and Cliff didn't end up being NBA rotation players like everyone predicted they would.

It's not like Self sat Wiggins for some crappy player. The players who make our TEAM the best play the most minutes.

Lotta point-missing here. You guys are talking past each other.

To me, one of Self's consistent issues has been prioritizing November-January wins over maximizing the March-April ceiling. Burying talent in favor of security blankets is absolutely a big piece of that.

If your message is "the player who figures out how to play defense and perform in the offense will play" then you had better be consistent with that message. More experienced players have the advantage earlier on but Self has frequently allowed the "better" players to gain more minutes and bigger roles as they have earned them. This whole notion that Self is stuck in his ways on this issue is dumb. He regularly proves it wrong.

The issue is there are lots of examples of talented guys not having the opportunity to figure it out.

[twocoach]

Lotta point-missing here. You guys are talking past each other.

To me, one of Self's consistent issues has been prioritizing November-January wins over maximizing the March-April ceiling. Burying talent in favor of security blankets is absolutely a big piece of that.

If your message is "the player who figures out how to play defense and perform in the offense will play" then you had better be consistent with that message. More experienced players have the advantage earlier on but Self has frequently allowed the "better" players to gain more minutes and bigger roles as they have earned them. This whole notion that Self is stuck in his ways on this issue is dumb. He regularly proves it wrong.

The issue is there are lots of examples of talented guys not having the opportunity to figure it out.

My guess is that you and Bill Self have different definitions of "opportunity" as he watches both games and practices while you watch only games.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Game reps matter.

And Bill has been a lot better about getting young guys reps compared to about 5 years ago.

2014 and 2015 taught him the lessons.

[pdub]

You know i'm all aboard the CHEEK Diallo shoulda taken Jamari's minutes train.

[Deleted User 863]

Sure game reps matter.

But those game reps also matter for Franks Devontes Perrys etc (the stars in the NOVA year since that example has been used). You can't have people out there who aren't ready if they're messing things up for the stars. All the guys being mentioned were ALL given chances to play in games. If they consistently fuck up it's awfully hard to play them over guys that make the TEAM better.

You play to win the games...and judging by our record in March/April Self has done a good job at maximizing ceilings for his teams. We are contenders most years. Lots of #1 seeds.

The method being discussed is essentially what Cal does. Play the highly rated guys whether they are ready or not, and have many of your vets transfer or get forced out. He has had less success with that method than Self has had with his.

Self gave Diallo and Cliff plenty of in game opportunities. Cliff started to figure it out. Diallo never really did despite being given 7min or more in games 15 times.