Well, the only requirement is the voting, so it is what it is. The voters (and the votes) speak for themselves.Cascadia wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:11 amMy argument is that you can have a separate "museum" if that's what you want (and there are plenty).
The Hall of Fame can set whatever requirements they want for inclusion.
I'm not trying to be flip - they should be punished in accordance with the rules in place when they played.
I don't disagree, but there are more rules at play than just the rules of baseball.jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:20 amI'm not trying to be flip - they should be punished in accordance with the rules in place when they played.
Bonds and Clemens didn't break the rules, and so there was no cause for punishment.
A-Rod did, and he was punished.
If you want to go through the HoF and pluck out every cheater, wifebeater, druggie and so on...you'll need a few dumpsters.
Obviously mileage varies a lot on this topic. To me, with rare exception, the Baseball Hall of Fame is about baseball.Cascadia wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:33 amI don't disagree, but there are more rules at play than just the rules of baseball.jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:20 amI'm not trying to be flip - they should be punished in accordance with the rules in place when they played.
Bonds and Clemens didn't break the rules, and so there was no cause for punishment.
A-Rod did, and he was punished.
If you want to go through the HoF and pluck out every cheater, wifebeater, druggie and so on...you'll need a few dumpsters.
Somewhat related. I love the argument that says "Steroids aren't against the rules" No, but they're against the law asshole. You can't murder someone on the football field and tell the judge there in nothing in the NFL rule book against murder.
Society has rules, some of them unwritten.
Another example. You may have freedom of speech but if you walk into black neighborhood shouting the n-word, expect to get your ass kicked (at a minimum).
Schilling openly advocating for violence against journalists is one of those rare exceptions, for me.CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:29 am That would be a time to mention Schilling, then. The thing about Schilling, though, is even if he was a stand-up, likable guy, his case would still be pretty borderline, IMO. Clemens and Bonds are all-timers. Ty Cobb, too.
You would think that a good portion of the BBWA rode their horses to watch Christy Matthewson throw back-to-back no hitters in the 1905 World Series and are here to protect some integrity a century later.
Above all else, that's awful. But that's also shitting where you eat.jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:37 amSchilling openly advocating for violence against journalists is one of those rare exceptions, for me.CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:29 am That would be a time to mention Schilling, then. The thing about Schilling, though, is even if he was a stand-up, likable guy, his case would still be pretty borderline, IMO. Clemens and Bonds are all-timers. Ty Cobb, too.
You would think that a good portion of the BBWA rode their horses to watch Christy Matthewson throw back-to-back no hitters in the 1905 World Series and are here to protect some integrity a century later.
Sure. I don't know where the line is, but for me it's definitely somewhere in between (1) doing something many/most/nearly all of your peers are doing, to gain a competitive advantage in your sport, and (2) rape.
I don't think steroids are murder, though. Steroid users were both pitching and batting in the roid era.
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:47 amI was going off your comment about murdering someone on the football field--now seeing that it was two different posts.
Oh no doubt. I'm not suggesting some great travesty has occurred. I just get annoyed by the righteous indignation of certain writers...whose careers were probably in fact saved by the horse-steroid-fueled post-strike home run boom.
How do you feel about rewarding cheaters who just didn't get caught?
