Vick

[Deleted User 75]

Agreed about TRob. He always seemed way too worried about scoring rather than defense. He'd come in, score and rebound like crazy, but have mutiple wtf defensive moments that made it hard for him to ever establish himself as a worthwhile rotation piece.

But I can't in good faith call SDS a future NBA player and then discount Grimes as not being 1. Grimes has a better chance than SDS at this point.

[jfish26]

Another proxy, albeit at the other end of a college basketball playing career is McD's All-American

We have 5, 4 with Dok out.

This was a team many thought was the best in the country and a FF favorite at the start of the year. If we're now saying this team isn't talented, there's some combination of EVERYONE on the roster underperforming, and EVERYONE on this board (not to mention the media) completely overestimated the entire roster.

I don't disagree, except maybe to point out that McD's AA or not, no one expected much from McCormack this year (sort of like Aldrich).

As for the other four:

* Doke never developed any skill;

* Dedric stagnated physically;

* Grimes has not been anything like what was hoped; and

* Dotson has been, if anything, a little better than what was hoped.

[PhDhawk]

I guess my counter would then be. We may not have a ton of NBA first round talent.

But we have a roster full of guys who will play professionally at a very high level. We have 6 to 10 guys who will all make a lot of money to play professional ball.

Lawson is a great college player, could be an All American if he can get better ball security and make his shots. He probably won't ever be very good in the NBA, but he's basically a big man version of Jimmer, in that he can be great in college...but that's where his athleticism tops out. And that's fine with me because I care more about how he can impact this team.

A lot of the same can be said about Vick and when he's on, which is certainly not always, he's a great college player too.

Grimes is coming along, and I think he'll be a lot closer to the player he was projected to be in March than he is now.

Moore isn't nearly the player I was expecting, Garrett hasn't progressed offensively, Mitch has a limited ceiling. But those guys are role players.

[Deleted User 75]

Very true PhD. You can be a great college player without being an NBA player.

Lots of national championships have been won by teams focused around a great college player who wasn't a good NBA player.

Maybe we can recreate some of that magic in 2019.

[PhDhawk]

For me, the more concerning thing about Lawson isn't how he projects as a professional, it's how inconsistent he's been.

He's played like shit (by the high standards we're expecting) in the last 3 games. Not to mention the VT game. With limited perimeter shooting, the success of this team relies pretty heavily on Dedric shooting a high percentage...that or becoming the passer Self says he is.

[PhDhawk]

Dedric: We need to stop calling him an "average" athlete. That does "average" athletes a tremendous disservice. He is a bad athlete, or even a non-athlete.

It's quite possible he's passed Eric Chenowith as the guy who's most forced me to yell "Just Dunk the Fucking Ball!"

[NDballer13]

For me, the more concerning thing about Lawson isn't how he projects as a professional, it's how inconsistent he's been.

He's played like shit (by the high standards we're expecting) in the last 3 games. Not to mention the VT game. With limited perimeter shooting, the success of this team relies pretty heavily on Dedric shooting a high percentage...that or becoming the passer Self says he is.

The five games he played at the 5, he shot 64%. That includes 3-13 from 3. Take those out and he's 73% playing on the block. Kind of like someone else who won't play again this year.

I have no problem with him taking 2 or 3 shots from deep a game. If he doesn't take them it takes away his advantage of taking a big guy off the dribble away.

My biggest worry about Dedric is he's now the post defender. Not that he was any better on the perimeter, but his verticality is not ideal and I can see a few instances where he gets 2 fouls fairly quick the way he leans on opponents.

[jfish26]

For me, the more concerning thing about Lawson isn't how he projects as a professional, it's how inconsistent he's been.

He's played like shit (by the high standards we're expecting) in the last 3 games. Not to mention the VT game. With limited perimeter shooting, the success of this team relies pretty heavily on Dedric shooting a high percentage...that or becoming the passer Self says he is.

I was also expecting a much more dangerous shooter. I really thought we were getting Marcus' skill level in Markieff's body.

[PhDhawk]

For me, the more concerning thing about Lawson isn't how he projects as a professional, it's how inconsistent he's been.

He's played like shit (by the high standards we're expecting) in the last 3 games. Not to mention the VT game. With limited perimeter shooting, the success of this team relies pretty heavily on Dedric shooting a high percentage...that or becoming the passer Self says he is.

I was also expecting a much more dangerous shooter. I really thought we were getting Marcus' skill level in Markieff's body.

We got Perry Ellis in Gumby's body.

[ousdahl]

Perry seems like one of the more obvious analogies with Dedric.

but - could you imagine if we ever had to rely on Perry at the 5?

[Deleted User 75]

I can imagine. We're pretty much in that exact scenario right now, except perry usually always had multiple 3pt threats surrounding him.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Dedric is ridiculously better than Perry.

Perry was our best offense on that really bad '14-'15 team and we still won the league. The sky is not falling yet and people are giving up way on Grimes way too early and at a really odd time considering his past couple of games.

[PhDhawk]

but that gumby joke was pretty good, right?

[pdub]

Ridiculously better than Perry?
No.
Better, yes.

Dedric is a rebounding machine. I don't think he's that much better an offensive player than Perry.
In fact, i'd argue Perry had a better selection of moves around the basket and could actually hit the 3.
Both of them get blocked more often than they should.

[Soklous]

[Deleted User 89]

but that gumby joke was pretty good, right?

i laughed

[Deleted User 75]

Looks bad. Probably just knew the ball wasn't coming his way....these are probably the little things that were harder to notice (as fans) in past years that caused self to call him selfish numerous times.

[DCHawk1]

I have never badmouthed a KU player -- even Sean Tunstall and Nadir -- but LaGerald is wearing on my last nerve.

I would be willing to overlook it all if he was just a player who turned out not to be as talented as everyone thought. But that's simply not the case. He has the talent, and has demonstrated it repeatedly. He just doesn't appear to care.

[Soklous]

Same boat as you. I don’t like it. I don’t want to be a part of it. But for fucks sake this is Vicks slim luck reunion tour that never should have been. The guidelines were laid out very clear and simple. And he was standing at the gates of legends and popularity like Devonte last month.

No one enjoys a fall.

[Lonestarjayhawk]

I must be the odd guy out. I still think we have the talent to win the B12. If SDS is cleared (again) then we may have a better starting five than we started with.