Let’s have a war!

[Qusdahl]

maybe i’m wrong, but it seems that NATO (and the economic and political relationships that it’s fostered) has largely been responsible for relative peace we’ve seen in Europe since WWII

Have you done any research of your own about it?

[TDub]

wait....are you proposing doing your own research now? in general...or is this only applicable to war time justifications

[Qusdahl]

I don’t mean that to be snarky or anything.

Let me share where I’m at.

I’ll see some tweet - a hot take, even! - like this one:



So then I’ll go Google search, to see who else is reporting such things. In this instance the terms were “Russia Ukraine peace talks mediated by China,” which yielded results such as these:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 0.html?amp

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022 ... th-ukraine

https://m.jpost.com/international/article-698073/amp

(Among plenty of other links)

But is it just me or is most western media devoid of this story?

Or of anything along the lines of US and NATO encouraging peace talks?

Or is it more so along the lines of “Putin’s a scary dood be ready for war war and more war!”

I don’t even know quite what to believe. The propaganda is almost as scary as the actual fighting!

But - has it occurred to anyone else here, at least, that we’ve all be overwhelmingly conditioned by propaganda our entire lives, and it can come in all sorts of shapes and sizes and nuanced flavors.

That Fiona Hill piece, for instance, is a good one. And makes a lot of good points! But there are also excepts that read like it’s pure unadulterated propaganda straight from the war machine’s mouth.

[Qusdahl]

And, come on, when so much of our economy and our gummint and our identity is military, why wouldn’t the MIC wanna ramp up the war machine?

again, they think in terms of dollars, not lives.

And considering it’s been all of *checks notes* 6 months since our last foreign invasion of a war on the other side of the world, they gotta do something to keep bidness a boomin, no pun intended.

Then these Q style hunches like, in a society in which corporations own and control pretty much everything, is it really a stretch to suggest the (corporate-owned) media might have an interest in fostering support for the (corporate-owned) war machine?

[japhy]

And, come on, when so much of our economy and our gummint and our identity is military, why wouldn’t the MIC wanna ramp up the war machine?

again, they think in terms of dollars, not lives.

And considering it’s been all of *checks notes* 6 months since our last foreign invasion of a war on the other side of the world, they gotta do something to keep bidness a boomin, no pun intended.

Then these Q style hunches like, in a society in which corporations own and control pretty much everything, is it really a stretch to suggest the (corporate-owned) media might have an interest in fostering support for the (corporate-owned) war machine?

You do realize that WWIII would be very bad for business right? Small skirmishes in a country without resources or nuclear weapons may make money, but the Big One reduces the world economy to nothing.

[Qusdahl]

Yes! Of course! Say it louder!

But bro you’re the one posting propaganda like “WW3 is already here!”

I’m sitting here crying anti-war, anti-fighting, anti-imperal cock measuring contests; and all you guys can do about it is gaslight me into being some Russian spam bot.

[japhy]

I don’t mean that to be snarky or anything.

Let me share where I’m at.

I’ll see some tweet - a hot take, even! - like this one:



So then I’ll go Google search, to see who else is reporting such things. In this instance the terms were “Russia Ukraine peace talks mediated by China,” which yielded results such as these:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 0.html?amp

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022 ... th-ukraine

https://m.jpost.com/international/article-698073/amp

(Among plenty of other links)

But is it just me or is most western media devoid of this story?

Or of anything along the lines of US and NATO encouraging peace talks?

First of all, you should read your own links. They spell it out pretty clearly.

No where in there does it support a storyline of the US not wanting China to mediate. Secondly it states that Chinese media is also very quiet about this request. Why? Because the Chinese only want their own people to hear about this if they are successful and seen as world heroes. If the US and EU were real partners with China in trying to make this happen, then they would let China take the lead, and that would include not making it a big media story unless it is going to be a success. That is how you gain trust with the Chinese.

And that tweet is not a hot take, it is a steaming turd of disinformation with dressing on the side waiting for you to take a bite.

[Qusdahl]

So the US DOES want China to meditate, then?

Why wouldn’t the US want to be the one at the center of peace talks?

You’d think with World War 3 already underway, we’d be looking for an exit ramp, more so than continuing to pump “lethal aid” into it, 9 figures worth at a time, paid for by you and me.

[japhy]

So the US DOES want China to meditate, then?

Why wouldn’t the US want to be the one at the center of peace talks?

You’d think with World War 3 already underway, we’d be looking for an exit ramp, more so than continuing to pump “lethal aid” into it, 9 figures worth at a time, paid for by you and me.

Are you fucking nuts, of course the US wants China to mediate. The Chinese have as much to lose as we do in WWIII. Do you really think the Chinese want to expand their markets in Russia? They do not want to be the Dollar General Store of the world economy. They want to be Gucci for fuck's sake. There's more money in that. So they want to keep selling stuff to the West.

The US can't be the mediator, we are the ones putin is so paranoid of. The only powerful friend he has left is China. They have to be the mediator. And it gives credence to China being an independent world power. This would be a big public opinion win for the Chinese and they haven't had many lately.

I am guessing there are thousands of people working non-stop all over the world on the exit ramp 24/7. They just don't have time to give us all an hourly run down. Luckily there are still a few grown ups in governments around the world so this can be stopped. And we are all most lucky trump isn't in office because he would be throwing fuel on this fire. It is killing him that no one is following him right now but the rube fringe media.

[japhy]

And lethal aid is about the only thing that has given the world time to figure out what to do about putin. He could have been installing a puppet government right now in Kiev while showing the world, and his people most importantly, images of Zelensky's beaten corpse hanging from a gallows. Instead we are hearing stories like this. Which might seem implausible, unless you wonder why the Russians haven't already won this war? A lot of military people seem to be wondering what has slowed down the Russians. The answer is it may be an inside job. The longer this goes on the better the chance of deescalation.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-troo ... 11053.html

Zelensky is a world hero right now. When election time comes around, the story of trump trying to blackmail Zelensky by witholding weapons will be rehashed again and again and rightly so.

[Qusdahl]

Why is Putin so paranoid about us? Don’t tell me you too are suddenly going full Q and acting like decades of broken promises and shitting all over foreign policy and ramping up proxy wars, suddenly has some negative consequence?!??!?!!! Nah, it can’t be. It could only be that japhy’s a Russophile now too!

Sorry, that’s the Q talking.

But yeah, it fuckin sucks that Merica can’t do more good in this situation. Apparently we’re just that much better at war than we are at peace? NATO too?

I’m not taking a side here - or rather, I’m taking the anti-putin, anti-nato, anti-war side, AGAIN, when I say, the whole lethal aid being pumped into Ukraine/Russian invasion foregone conclusion seems like it very well could be a chicken and egg thing, don’t it?

and that our best bet really might be the good faith of…China?! I feel weird.

Is China the only one looking for a public opinion win? What country HAS had such a win lately?

And yea, who knows what Trump would be doing. Prob shitting all over nato to appease his boy Putin?

But Trump shitting all over nato would prob be only cuz Putin wanted him to, nothing more or less. That seems like a contrast with the leftist/much of the rest of the world’s refrain of shitting on nato cuz it may do as much to perpetuate war than foster peace…not to mention the weird nazi angles.

NOT THAT I SUPPORT PUTIN!

[japhy]

Why is Putin so paranoid about us?

putin is a sociopathic narcisist, like trump. They have spent their whole lives ripping everyone off and throwing their allies under the bus when in danger. They have no friends, none, they trust no one unless they can be sure they fear them. We don't fear putin, that makes him nervous. putin sees everyone as a potential threat; because he is always making threats. It's all he knows, it is what his life has been built around.

China will figure out how to toss him a bone and he will prance around on Russian media (which now includes Fox and OAN) acting as though he got the keys to the kingdom. The trump media will try and amplify that message to claim Biden is weak. And putin will hopefully realize how close he got to his own annihilation and decide to keep his money and power and forget about acting upon his urges for world domination.

trump thought that burning our country to the ground was better than moving on from defeat.

putin is smart enough to know that there can be personal consequences/accountability for burning Russia to the ground.

And by Solstice we will be laughing at memes of McCarthy on a leash held by trump, trump on a leash held by putin, and putin on a leash held by Xi, and Xi on a leash held by Biden. A parody of the Russian doll inside a doll theme.

[jfish26]

And lethal aid is about the only thing that has given the world time to figure out what to do about putin. He could have been installing a puppet government right now in Kiev while showing the world, and his people most importantly, images of Zelensky's beaten corpse hanging from a gallows. Instead we are hearing stories like this. Which might seem implausible, unless you wonder why the Russians haven't already won this war? A lot of military people seem to be wondering what has slowed down the Russians. The answer is it may be an inside job. The longer this goes on the better the chance of deescalation.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-troo ... 11053.html

Zelensky is a world hero right now. When election time comes around, the story of trump trying to blackmail Zelensky by witholding weapons will be rehashed again and again and rightly so.

One thing that is very very very bad for Putin is he's put Zelensky into would-be martyr status.

[KUTradition]

maybe i’m wrong, but it seems that NATO (and the economic and political relationships that it’s fostered) has largely been responsible for relative peace we’ve seen in Europe since WWII

Have you done any research of your own about it?

seriously?

says the guy posting wikipedia sources?

i didn’t say it was fact and i prefaced it by saying maybe i’m wrong, and that it seems like…

in truth, we’ll never know because we can’t go back and just make NATO disappear

IN MY OPINION, though, it can easily be argued that NATO has done more good than harm, both directly and indirectly

[KUTradition]

I don’t mean that to be snarky or anything.

Let me share where I’m at.

I’ll see some tweet - a hot take, even! - like this one:



So then I’ll go Google search, to see who else is reporting such things. In this instance the terms were “Russia Ukraine peace talks mediated by China,” which yielded results such as these:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 0.html?amp

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022 ... th-ukraine

https://m.jpost.com/international/article-698073/amp

(Among plenty of other links)

But is it just me or is most western media devoid of this story?

Or of anything along the lines of US and NATO encouraging peace talks?

Or is it more so along the lines of “Putin’s a scary dood be ready for war war and more war!”

I don’t even know quite what to believe. The propaganda is almost as scary as the actual fighting!

But - has it occurred to anyone else here, at least, that we’ve all be overwhelmingly conditioned by propaganda our entire lives, and it can come in all sorts of shapes and sizes and nuanced flavors.

That Fiona Hill piece, for instance, is a good one. And makes a lot of good points! But there are also excepts that read like it’s pure unadulterated propaganda straight from the war machine’s mouth.

dude, the US tried for months to reach a diplomatic resolution

you’re making it harder and harder to take you seriously

[KUTradition]

awesome and hilarious if true

https://autoevolution.com/news/putins-g ... 82820.html

[Qusdahl]

Dude. Why? I’m not sure I’m nearly as radical as you seem to believe.

Would you please elaborate on your opinion that NATO has done more good than harm? I don’t disagree. I’m just trying to better understand.

I guess maybe what I’ve been trying to say all along is, maybe one of the biggest things we could do toward world peace is some come-to-Jesus moment for the US and NATO, too?

It just seems like that’s been a big big factor, the elephant in the room, even. but like so much of Merica these days, there’s zero self-awareness, and no real accountability or vision; mostly just divisive bickering.

And I don’t wanna concede a thing to Putin or Russia either. But I do want peace! And I do think we’re better off all taking responsibility toward that peace, rather than taking sides and fostering good vs evil narratives and acting like everyone else is the problem.

That’s the same thing Putin is doing!

NOT THAT I SUPPORT HIM.

[KUTradition]

i’ve already said why, but you either flat out ignored it, didn’t read it, or don’t agree with it

[jfish26]

awesome and hilarious if true

https://autoevolution.com/news/putins-g ... 82820.html

I am skeptical, but yes I would laugh.

[japhy]

Here's some more good reads.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-olig ... 40591.html

https://www.yahoo.com/news/putin-is-det ... 03665.html