Let’s have a war!

[Qusdahl]

i’ve already said why, but you either flat out ignored it, didn’t read it, or don’t agree with it

Man.

I’d kindly ask for a refresher, but I don’t wanna ruffle any more feathers.

Can we please just get along?

Or, if nothing else, I’ll just wave the white flag and excuse myself from this thread.

[KUTradition]

this is my understanding, and it could very well be flawed:

the creation of NATO, in conjunction with the Marshall plan at the end of WWII, laid the foundation for political and economic partnerships across Europe

the EU is an extension of that

countries started looking more at economic prosperity, rather than invasion of neighbors and increasing their geographic footprints

has NATO been perfect? hell no

but i think you’re kidding yourself if you think the world would be better, safer place if it didn’t exist

[KUTradition]

i’ve already said why, but you either flat out ignored it, didn’t read it, or don’t agree with it

Man.

I’d kindly ask for a refresher, but I don’t wanna ruffle any more feathers.

Can we please just get along?

Or, if nothing else, I’ll just wave the white flag and excuse myself from this thread.

you just seem so set on arguing things many of us have already agreed with in previous discussions…namely our bloated MIC and that war is bad

imo, now is not the time for those discussions because it distracts from what is actually happening right now (and we’ve had them previously)

your insistence that we make the conversation about something broader than putin invading Ukraine is, i think, what so many are taking exception to

[ProudBoy]

And, come on, when so much of our economy and our gummint and our identity is military, why wouldn’t the MIC wanna ramp up the war machine?

again, they think in terms of dollars, not lives.

And considering it’s been all of *checks notes* 6 months since our last foreign invasion of a war on the other side of the world, they gotta do something to keep bidness a boomin, no pun intended.

Then these Q style hunches like, in a society in which corporations own and control pretty much everything, is it really a stretch to suggest the (corporate-owned) media might have an interest in fostering support for the (corporate-owned) war machine?

Товарищ, не обращайте внимания на этих западных марионеток. Величие России восторжествует, и противники нас содрогнутся перед нашей мощью.

[Qusdahl]

Not trying to bicker, but if I may respectfully ask - could you consider whether there’s any risk to the “now is not the time” sort of rhetoric?

That seems like precisely the kind of thinking the war machine propaganda wants to condition us to do. What good is being anti-war, if you’re supposed to suddenly keep quiet as soon as the war drums beat again?

If we DONT make the conversation broader, then aren’t we just making it narrower? Isn’t that playing right into the warmonger’s hands, by reducing the narrative from some actual understanding that might foster some actual dialogue toward peace, down to the oversimplified “good vs evil” sort of rhetoric it takes to gain public support for war?

That logic seems about as good as, the immediate aftermath of a mass shooting being “not the time” to discuss gun violence. Do we really need more thoughts and prayers?

[KUTradition]

Not trying to bicker, but if I may respectfully ask - could you consider whether there’s any risk to the “now is not the time” sort of rhetoric?

That seems like precisely the kind of thinking the war machine propaganda wants to condition us to do. What good is being anti-war, if you’re supposed to suddenly keep quiet as soon as the war drums beat again?

If we DONT make the conversation broader, then aren’t we just making it narrower? Isn’t that playing right into the warmonger’s hands, by reducing the narrative from some actual understanding that might foster some actual dialogue toward peace, down to the oversimplified “good vs evil” sort of rhetoric it takes to gain public support for war?

That logic seems about as good as, the immediate aftermath of a mass shooting being “not the time” to discuss gun violence. Do we really need more thoughts and prayers?

that’s a false equivalence

the time to not talk about gun violence is in the middle of a mass shooting, while people are still loosing their lives and the shooter is actively roaming the halls

[japhy]

Not trying to bicker, but if I may respectfully ask - could you consider whether there’s any risk to the “now is not the time” sort of rhetoric?

That seems like precisely the kind of thinking the war machine propaganda wants to condition us to do. What good is being anti-war, if you’re supposed to suddenly keep quiet as soon as the war drums beat again?

If we DONT make the conversation broader, then aren’t we just making it narrower? Isn’t that playing right into the warmonger’s hands, by reducing the narrative from some actual understanding that might foster some actual dialogue toward peace, down to the oversimplified “good vs evil” sort of rhetoric it takes to gain public support for war?

That logic seems about as good as, the immediate aftermath of a mass shooting being “not the time” to discuss gun violence. Do we really need more thoughts and prayers?

that’s a false equivalence

the time to not talk about gun violence is in the middle of a mass shooting, while people are still loosing their lives and the shooter is actively roaming the halls

I think that sums it up nicely.

[japhy]

And, come on, when so much of our economy and our gummint and our identity is military, why wouldn’t the MIC wanna ramp up the war machine?

again, they think in terms of dollars, not lives.

And considering it’s been all of *checks notes* 6 months since our last foreign invasion of a war on the other side of the world, they gotta do something to keep bidness a boomin, no pun intended.

Then these Q style hunches like, in a society in which corporations own and control pretty much everything, is it really a stretch to suggest the (corporate-owned) media might have an interest in fostering support for the (corporate-owned) war machine?

Товарищ, не обращайте внимания на этих западных марионеток. Величие России восторжествует, и противники нас содрогнутся перед нашей мощью.

This proudguy gets it.

[Qusdahl]

Ok, so maybe the analogy doesn’t work that well.

So then, remove the analogy from the rest of the point.

You really expect anti-war types to shut up just cuz war is escalating? Or precisely cuz war is escalating?

Just imagine if there were MORE anti-war types in Merica, actually willing to foster dialogue and try to avoid war, rather than so many giving the “not the time” rhetoric and blindly drinking the good vs evil koolaid!

Maybe we’d have actual GOOD relations with Russia, rather than Russia justifying their aggression cuz of our aggression first. (Fuck Putin)

Heck, maybe we could even be the arbiters of world peace, rather than just thinking and praying that maybe China -China! - is the world’s best chance at not vaporizing itself.

[Qusdahl]

Question:

If and when this may escalate to the point of full US intervention, not just a proxy fight, but US boots on the ground in a foreign land, once again -

Are you prepared to personally go fight?

Would you want your loved ones to go fight?

[jfish26]

This is all a bit. It's a bit, right?

[Qusdahl]

Now is not the time.

[TDub]

so your of the mindset that we (the world) should just let Russia waltz in and take over another sovereign nation? One they made a deal with (in 95?96?) to NOT Invade if they gave up nuclear weapons?

because that's what it comes across like.

[Qusdahl]

I don’t know how many times I have to say it. What part of “fuck Putin” do you not understand?

Are you of the mindset that it’s a GOOD thing to keep escalating war with Russia?

And do you really wanna go down the “made a deal to NOT invade” path? Cuz when I tried that, I was told now is not the time.

[TDub]

you keep saying if their were more anti war types etc....

and? what if there was?

do the antiwar types in America stop Russia from invading?

do the antiwar nations stop Russia from invading?

what happens when a country does invade? what good does it do to yell Im against war? is that helping the country being invaded?

what are you getting at....how do anti war sentiments stop this ongoing war?

[twocoach]

https://www.icc-cpi.int/Pages/item.aspx ... 3BRd5QEWXs

The International Criminal Court (ICC) has officially opened an investigation into possible war crimes and crimes against humanity involving the current actions in Ukraine.

[TDub]

I would also add to Q.....if everybody else here is misinterpreting your "message".....perhaps its a sign that your approach isn't clear.

[japhy]

Maybe we’d have actual GOOD relations with Russia, rather than Russia justifying their aggression cuz of our aggression first. (Fuck Putin)

Did you read any of those articles discussing who putin is and where he came from? He has one stated mission and that is to recreate Imperial Russia. It is his life goal and everything he has done is to further that cause.

Oh, and he does not make friends or GOOD relations.

As long as putin is charge over there, there will be no GOOD relations. His goals and values are diametrically opposed to that of most of the humans on earth. And he has started to realize he is running out of time. So he is desperate.

[NewtonHawk11]

Russia says 500 soldiers dead and 1,600 injured since the invasion began. Ukraine says they have record of almost 7,000 dead Russian soldiers and hundreds captured. Pentagon says it's probably an even about 1,500 on each side that have died in this invasion.

Probably won't ever get an accurate number from anybody.

Almost 7,000 Russians arrested for protesting.

[jfish26]

Russia says 500 soldiers dead and 1,600 injured since the invasion began. Ukraine says they have record of almost 7,000 dead Russian soldiers and hundreds captured. Pentagon says it's probably an even about 1,500 on each side that have died in this invasion.

Probably won't ever get an accurate number from anybody.

Almost 7,000 Russians arrested for protesting.

Pretty grim that Russia brought mobile crematoriums (crematoria?) to the proceedings, so as to obscure observable KIA figures.