Government Shut-Down Thread

[twocoach]

I don't think you're assessing the political climate -- especially on the Left -- particularly accurately.

Do you think Trump is doing this because he thinks it is whats right for the country or because its whats right for his reelection efforts?

[Deleted User 89]

rhetorical?

[twocoach]

I mean, you can claim that doing it for the first reason helps the second, but I doubt anyone really believes that is why he is doing it.

As DC pointed out, there was a time bot too long ago when the Dems believed the same false narratives about what a wall would do. Where they seem to differ from their GOP counterparts is that they actually learned from the fact that the billions of dollars wasted on upgrading the wall in the Bush era did nothing to reduce the flow of illegal immigrants or drugs into the country like they were told it would.

[twocoach]

They did vote on it. And they did pass it. And president GEORGE W. BUSH did sign it into law (The Secure Fence Act of 2006). Obama, Clinton, and Schumer all voted for it. It was supposed to create 700 miles of double-layer fencing (steel slats, like Trump's latest concession). The double-layer part was amended in 2008.

So how are so many illegals and drugs still getting into our country that we have a "national emergency" on our hands if we already spent billions of dollars on exactly what Trump wants billions more to build?

[twocoach]

A 2017 GAO report on Bush's wall found it had been breached 9,287 times between 2020 and 2015, forcing $7.2 million in repairs.

Why is our country so dumb? Why do we not learn from our past actions and poor decisions?

As being discussed in the Green Deal thread, the answer to solving problems is in many cases a pursuit of advanced technological measures. You dont fix the global climate issues by just recycling a little more and driving a little less. You dont fix our border issues by just sticking a wall in the ground. Low tech is dumb tech and takes little skill, little resources and little effort to circumvent.

[Deleted User 75]

They did vote on it. And they did pass it. And president GEORGE W. BUSH did sign it into law (The Secure Fence Act of 2006). Obama, Clinton, and Schumer all voted for it. It was supposed to create 700 miles of double-layer fencing (steel slats, like Trump's latest concession). The double-layer part was amended in 2008.

So how are so many illegals and drugs still getting into our country that we have a "national emergency" on our hands if we already spent billions of dollars on exactly what Trump wants billions more to build?

Plano has shared some data that shows illegal immigration is down over the last 10+ years.....so maybe the barriers that were built did help to reduce the flow of illegals into our country....? I'm sure it helps some, how significantly is tough to determine I'm sure, but I think we all agree it's not a 1 stop shop type of fix. It's a complex issue that needs multiple methods to improve.

Much like you (I think), I'm more concerned about added tech and staffing, than I am an actual wall....but some areas with a barrier probably make sense.

Some don't. Like the areas where Americans own land that would hypothetically be on the opposite side of the wall.

[Deleted User 89]

definition of insanity...continue to do the same thing, but expect a different outcome

[ousdahl]

Most Americans Call Shutdown 'Embarrassing' As It's Set To Become Longest In History

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/11/68430013 ... t-in-histo

[Deleted User 62]

Drops in illegal immigration can probably be tied to the economy in Mexico becoming more stable as well.

I assume most of you have never travelled to the actual border. If you do, you will see that border walls/fences exist mostly only in areas that are populated on one side or both sides.

A big reason for that is that getting to the more rural areas is almost impossible. There aren't any road access or highways close by.

[Deleted User 89]

Drops in illegal immigration can probably be tied to the economy in Mexico becoming more stable as well.

I assume most of you have never travelled to the actual border. If you do, you will see that border walls/fences exist mostly only in areas that are populated on one side or both sides.

A big reason for that is that getting to the more rural areas is almost impossible. There aren't any road access or highways close by.

it’s been a while for me, but last time i crossed there was a YUGE difference between urban areas (nogales or tijuana) and places like Organ Pipe on hwy 85.

drove along mexico’s hwy 2 and it seemed that all along the way it would’ve been pretty “easy” to just head north and cross the border

[Deleted User 62]

If Trump gets any wall, it will quickly be built in areas easily accessible for photo ops.

Trump and Hannity can have their hands in each others back pockets while Rush breaks (carefully) a bottle of the finest champagne over a section.

What's Lee Greenwood up to these days?

[Deleted User 89]

wonder if he’s still proud to be an american [where at least he knows that HE is free]?

[chiknbut]

I don't think you're assessing the political climate -- especially on the Left -- particularly accurately.

Do you think Trump is doing this because he thinks it is whats right for the country or because its whats right for his reelection efforts?

Neither?

This is just more distraction.

[twocoach]

I don't think you're assessing the political climate -- especially on the Left -- particularly accurately.

Do you think Trump is doing this because he thinks it is whats right for the country or because its whats right for his reelection efforts?

Neither?

This is just more distraction.

I would feel that way too except that the original deal was on the verge of being signed before Coulter and Rush blasted Trump. Seemed to have scared the shit out of Trump so now he's putting on a big performance to buy back their favor.

Trump has to know he isn't getting this. He has to. If enough Republicans jump ship under pressure of their constituents, they can override his veto and then he looks like an even bigger loser. He's fighting a losing battle.

[jhawks99]

We don't need no park rangers tellin us where to camp.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/11/us/calif ... index.html

[Deleted User 89]

it’s ok, didnt you hear that those parks are for everyone to use?

damage be damned...

[jhawks99]

I'm sure DC will be along to explain that when TR created the NPS that their charter did not bestow policing powers. At least that's what I think he was getting at. But they have them now, and have had them since before I started visiting nation parks in the 60's. Also, to my knowledge, no other agency has authority.

So.... NPS Rangers it is. As it should be.

[twocoach]

I'm sure DC will be along to explain that when TR created the NPS that their charter did not bestow policing powers. At least that's what I think he was getting at. But they have them now, and have had them since before I started visiting nation parks in the 60's. Also, to my knowledge, no other agency has authority.

So.... NPS Rangers it is. As it should be.

They also didnt have 8000 camping spaces, a gift shop and guided white water rafting trips with gourmet lunch stops so...

[DCHawk1]

Most Americans Call Shutdown 'Embarrassing' As It's Set To Become Longest In History

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/11/68430013 ... t-in-histo

Most Americans also support ending illegal immigration.

So....

[DCHawk1]

I'm sure DC will be along to explain that when TR created the NPS that their charter did not bestow policing powers. At least that's what I think he was getting at. But they have them now, and have had them since before I started visiting nation parks in the 60's. Also, to my knowledge, no other agency has authority.

So.... NPS Rangers it is. As it should be.

They also didnt have 8000 camping spaces, a gift shop and guided white water rafting trips with gourmet lunch stops so...

Wait. Wut?