Evil Rich People

[ousdahl]

I think that could be achieved by affording all stakeholders a stay in a company, rather than only those who possess the capital.

That already exists in the a lot of companies in the United States.

It exists in the company I work for. Anyone else?

great!

would you be able to elaborate? If it's possible to do so without getting too specific, what sorts of decisions does your company face, and what sort of say are you afforded? Are you able to provide any examples, please?

and is this in your capacity as a shareholder, or otherwise?

[Deleted User 863]

Do you think a company should have all employees vote for every decision? Even the ones who aren't qualified to give input?

We have committees for countless things. We have profit sharing incentive programs for employees so when the company does well everyone shares in that.

My company is privately owned. I am a stakeholder, not a shareholder. There is a difference.

I own shares of countless publicly traded companies. I get mail to "vote" for certain things almost weekly. That's being a shareholder.

[Deleted User 863]

You always just come across as an endlessly unhappy employee. It's probably exactly why you struggle in work environments.

You should start your own business. You'll have to start small if you don't have much money or a skill. Mow yards. Shovel driveways. Learn to cut hair. Do something other than be a "worker bee" for someone else. And if you're so qualified to do things better than those you've worked for then be their competitors. Find investors. If you're a sure thing it'll be easy to do. But if you're just lip service that'll be easy to spot as well.

(I mean all of that respectfully and not in a rude tone)

[ousdahl]

Do you think a company should have all employees vote for every decision? Even the ones who aren't qualified to give input?

yea.

I mean, if shareholders who otherwise aren't "qualified" to give input get a vote, then employees should too.

not sure what you mean by employees who "aren't qualified"

but in my experience, any employee who has done any sort of work for any amount of time for a company is infinitely more qualified to have a say in decision-making because of it, than some shareholder just cuz they made a one-time investment.

[ousdahl]

You always just come across as an endlessly unhappy employee. It's probably exactly why you struggle in work environments.

You should start your own business. You'll have to start small if you don't have much money or a skill. Mow yards. Shovel driveways. Learn to cut hair. Do something other than be a "worker bee" for someone else. And if you're so qualified to do things better than those you've worked for then be their competitors. Find investors. If you're a sure thing it'll be easy to do. But if you're just lip service that'll be easy to spot as well.

(I mean all of that respectfully and not in a rude tone)

thanks...this is taken respectfully, and not rudely.

yea, I need to start my own bidness, in the worst way. But the problem is, I'm not good at starting small.

I'll once again share my story about KU career services. I go in, a clueless undergrad in need of direction, and they give me the "you can do whatever you want to do" shtick. So what do you want to do, ous?

umm...start a new religion!

They laughed at me, and suggested business school in the meantime.

But the point is, it's not that I'm not ambitious enough, it's that I'm too ambitious.

I've outgrown the "religion" thing, but if asked the same question nowadays, the answer is something along the lines of "start a new revolution."

but, like...how do I go back to school for that? What degree would I even get? And how would it pay the bills?

[Deleted User 863]

Do you think a company should have all employees vote for every decision? Even the ones who aren't qualified to give input?

yea.

I mean, if shareholders who otherwise aren't "qualified" to give input get a vote, then employees should too.

not sure what you mean by employees who "aren't qualified"

but in my experience, any employee who has done any sort of work for any amount of time for a company is infinitely more qualified to have a say in decision-making because of it, than some shareholder just cuz they made a one-time investment.

Shareholders own a portion of the company. Have you ever owned stock? I don't get to vote for every decision say a company like AT&T makes, but occasionally do get votes for certain things like leadership changes or nominations to the board of directors type of things. The employees are free to buy stock, heck some even get stock benefits as part of their compensation packages.

Stakeholders don't necessarily. Especially if it's a privately owned company and they aren't an owner.

If I own a golf course, I get to make the big decisions. Not the bar manager. Good owners tend to be good at delegation of duties/decisions though. So a good owner probably understands the bar manager is more qualified to make decisions or give significant input to things in their area of the business.

If you own a fishing supply store, you get to make the big decisions. Not the cashier. But you could ask the cashier for input on things they have more experience with than you.

If there is no benefit to owning something then nobody would own anything.

You aren't forced to work for any company that makes you unhappy, treats you unfairly, or makes decisions you don't agree with.

[Deleted User 863]

You always just come across as an endlessly unhappy employee. It's probably exactly why you struggle in work environments.

You should start your own business. You'll have to start small if you don't have much money or a skill. Mow yards. Shovel driveways. Learn to cut hair. Do something other than be a "worker bee" for someone else. And if you're so qualified to do things better than those you've worked for then be their competitors. Find investors. If you're a sure thing it'll be easy to do. But if you're just lip service that'll be easy to spot as well.

(I mean all of that respectfully and not in a rude tone)

thanks...this is taken respectfully, and not rudely.

yea, I need to start my own bidness, in the worst way. But the problem is, I'm not good at starting small.


But the point is, it's not that I'm not ambitious enough, it's that I'm too ambitious.

Almost everyone I know who is successful, as a business owner or as an employee, had to start small.

[Deleted User 863]

It sounds like a lot of people would enjoy working for you because you'd give everyone input and split profits more evenly which would result in above market salaries and attract better employees. So you should have no problem starting a successful business.

Even though I think you'd change your tune the moment it was you who put in all the hard work to start a business rather than the cashier who just started 2 weeks ago.

[jhawks99]

[Overlander]

You gonna split profits equally?

Does everyone have the same skin in the game?

[TDub]

if every employee had input on every decision nothing would ever happen. Somebody has to make decisions. I guarantee this small board of people on this site couldn't agree on what to eat much less every damn decision that a business faces. If everyone had to review each item and research it and discuss and vote.....when would the work actually occur? I'm sure you'd want to be compensated for your time towards making those decisions no? Fantasy island.

[Deleted User 863]

Does everyone have the same skin in the game?

He seems to give no value to "skin in the game".

[ousdahl]

if every employee had input on every decision nothing would ever happen. Somebody has to make decisions. I guarantee this small board of people on this site couldn't agree on what to eat much less every damn decision that a business faces. If everyone had to review each item and research it and discuss and vote.....when would the work actually occur? I'm sure you'd want to be compensated for your time towards making those decisions no? Fantasy island.

“What do you guys want for dinner?”

Can we have pizza?

ThAtS Not An AnsWeR!!!!!!

[ousdahl]

You gonna split profits equally?

Does everyone have the same skin in the game?

While I doubt many if any instances would be split “equally,” I also think giving all stakeholders more say would do more to address the inequalities of capitalism, than the capitalists ever have.

Forgive me if I think workers should be able to enjoy more of their own labor value.

As for “skin in the game,” does a capitalist really have more (missing profit potential, maybe even the bidness going under) to loose than the workers loosing limbs and getting hurt or sick or killed on the clock?

(I almost wanted to take that idea to some extreme and say something like, if this revolution wins then we’ll have a whole new concept of “profits” either way.)

[ousdahl]

Does everyone have the same skin in the game?

He seems to give no value to "skin in the game".

Consider me among those who view capitalism (and its values of infinite consumption and nonstop expansion and profits-or-bust mentality) to be overwhelmingly responsible for climate change.

My skin in the game is the fate of the planet, nothing less.

Of course, it’ll affect future generations more than it affects us - which is particularly ironic considering I’m the only one in this convo who doesn’t have kids.

[TDub]

if every employee had input on every decision nothing would ever happen. Somebody has to make decisions. I guarantee this small board of people on this site couldn't agree on what to eat much less every damn decision that a business faces. If everyone had to review each item and research it and discuss and vote.....when would the work actually occur? I'm sure you'd want to be compensated for your time towards making those decisions no? Fantasy island.

“What do you guys want for dinner?”

Can we have pizza?

ThAtS Not An AnsWeR!!!!!!

great job not being snarky.

and actually pizza is an answer. now let's go to a vote see if every person in the company wants pizza. Once that's established, assuming it passes...we can move to vote on each specific topping.

Maybe we'll eat before we starve to death. Maybe.

Now, expand that to each and every decision a company has to make and your company died before it made a dollar.

[ousdahl]

It sounds like a lot of people would enjoy working for you because you'd give everyone input and split profits more evenly which would result in above market salaries and attract better employees. So you should have no problem starting a successful business.

Even though I think you'd change your tune the moment it was you who put in all the hard work to start a business rather than the cashier who just started 2 weeks ago.

Actually, I owned and operated my own bidness for years.

Lawn and landscape bitch!

I paid a better wage than pretty much anything else an 18-22 could earn in Lawrence, bought lunch as a courtesy to anyone who worked that day, and even afforded workers a fat bowl of the finest Lawrence herb before we got started.

LOL just kidding.

OF COURSE i wouldn’t smoke out my employees before work. Gotta focus on my own bottom line, and weed in Lawrence ain’t cheap.

[Deleted User 863]

It sounds like a lot of people would enjoy working for you because you'd give everyone input and split profits more evenly which would result in above market salaries and attract better employees. So you should have no problem starting a successful business.

Even though I think you'd change your tune the moment it was you who put in all the hard work to start a business rather than the cashier who just started 2 weeks ago.

Actually, I owned and operated my own bidness for years.

Lawn and landscape bitch!

I paid a better wage than pretty much anything else an 18-22 could earn in Lawrence, bought lunch as a courtesy to anyone who worked that day, and even afforded workers a fat bowl of the finest Lawrence herb before we got started.

LOL just kidding.

OF COURSE i wouldn’t smoke out my employees before work. Gotta focus on my own bottom line, and weed in Lawrence ain’t cheap.

Why did your business fail? (Honest question)

Did you let your employees have input on their wage? Did you use gas for your machines or make them do the work manually to save the environment? Did you pick the lunch spot or did you all get an equal vote? Did everyone vote on each entree? (Snarky questions)

[ousdahl]

Why did you assume my bidness failed?

Actually, I sold it to a former employee.

But generally, I tried to make it an an enjoyable gig, and everyone who worked with me seemed to enjoy it. I never had any big complaints or dramatic terminations.

We usually got Goodcents. Foot long penny clubs all around.

[Deleted User 863]

And ever since you've been sharing an apartment with another grown man and complaining about employers not valuing you enough as you think you deserve?

Seems like you made a bad choice to sell it.