Another mass shooting

[ousdahl]

Actually, now I recall Denver’s police reform is going well. Actual consequences for brutality, or for a cop not reporting knowledge of another cop’s brutality. And I think they have a program where social workers are sent instead of cops for certain situations, which has brutality down too.

But other places have just thrown more money at the same old practices. And not sure Biden’s “fund the police” really does much to actually address the concerns of BLM

[DrPepper]

The Buffalo Tops terrorist said he
carried out the attack because "all black people are replacers just by existing in White countries." There is no way he is so ignorant to not know that whites are the replacers, that the vast majority of the blacks he killed weren’t still having babies, and that their ancestors came to the US kicking and screaming. It seems some critical race theory could have helped this terrorist. Surely other terrorist could-bes and wannabes are laughing at his many mistakes.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

I am saying my prayers (figuratively) that the Cubs suck.
If they were good, I most likely would have gone to last night's game and would have gotten off the train right there right around the same time this happened.




Just another night in the "good" part/s of Chicago.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

P.S. question to my post above.
Not making the national news because..... It was Blacks shooting Blacks?

[KUTradition]

presumed gang violence just doesn’t get the bandwidth anymore

[DrPepper]

What a terrible exercise to entertain (since all murder is sad), but off the cuff here, let's see.... where is the bar to garner my extra attention (geography aside).

• children (eg Sandy Hook)
• hate crimes and terrorism (Buffalo Tops, Oklahoma City Bombing)
• Often wrongfully killed by people who should have known better (eg when a cop kills an unarmed person for a broken taillight or when they, themselves, enter the wrong apartment)

The number of dead did not register with me today. I considered briefly the las vegas country concert massacre, but I never bothered to read another article about it like I will examples from the above list.

Before you blow this apart, it is not exhaustive, nor well thought out, and I am sure I am going to regret it. I leave it here for discussion purposes and look forward to any thoughtful input that makes me think.

[twocoach]

P.S. question to my post above.
Not making the national news because..... It was Blacks shooting Blacks?

I don't think "disagreements that escalate into gunfire" gets the same coverage as "went to a location for the sole purpose of killing as many innocent people as possible" because they just don't have the same motivation behind them.

Do I wish that we could get guns out of the hands of the shooters in both situations? Yes.

[ousdahl]

The Buffalo shooting suspect's online footprint prompts questions about red flags

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/20/11002002 ... -red-flags

[KUTradition]

P.S. question to my post above.
Not making the national news because..... It was Blacks shooting Blacks?

I don't think "disagreements that escalate into gunfire" gets the same coverage as "went to a location for the sole purpose of killing as many innocent people as possible" because they just don't have the same motivation behind them.

Do I wish that we could get guns out of the hands of the shooters in both situations? Yes.

the double homicide in Lawrence is indicative of this

road rage that escalated too far…not another peep on here

but, had it been motivated by some sort of hate or prejudice, or involved the innocent, the coverage would likely be greater

[ousdahl]

re: Chicago shootings, what are the factors that make violent crime so prevalent there?

and what do cops do to prevent it? (here's your friendly reminder the Chicago PD has some 12,000 officers and an annual budget around $1.7 billion)

and speaking of...

[KUTradition]

isn’t chicago also where the teen girl was hit by police crossfire while in a dressing room?

[twocoach]

P.S. question to my post above.
Not making the national news because..... It was Blacks shooting Blacks?

I don't think "disagreements that escalate into gunfire" gets the same coverage as "went to a location for the sole purpose of killing as many innocent people as possible" because they just don't have the same motivation behind them.

Do I wish that we could get guns out of the hands of the shooters in both situations? Yes.

the double homicide in Lawrence is indicative of this

road rage that escalated too far…not another peep on here

but, had it been motivated by some sort of hate or prejudice, or involved the innocent, the coverage would likely be greater

We have had this same conversation on here probably a dozen times. What seems to be so alarming about what the media call "mass shootings" is that they are premeditated acts of terror. I doubt very highly that any of the shooters involved in that fight at a Chicago McDonalds had scoped the place out, taken note of the heavier traffic at that time of day and gone there for the sole purpose of trying to kill as many people as possible. It was just some people who carried a gun with them and got in a fight in a crowd where multiple other people had guns as well.

Planned violence is different than in-the-moment violence. To me, it has nothing to do with the color of the skin of either the shooters or the victims.

[ousdahl]

[KUTradition]

what could the cops have done?

it isn’t illegal to call people that. was he actually threatening someone, or just walking around being a racist prick?

[KUTradition]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... placement/

[DrPepper]

The Buffalo shooting suspect's online footprint prompts questions about red flags

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/20/11002002 ... -red-flags

What has come up so far seems pretty easy to dismiss imo.

One time he displayed suicidal ideation to others and he spent a day in the hospital for it. I posit that his middle-class privilege and clean past made his lies easy to believe and he escaped further notice (he had written “murder/suicide" in response to the question "What do you want to do when you retire?" on a high school assignment).

The other thing being written about is that he decapitated a stray cat that was attacking his family’s pet cat. His mother gave him a box to bury it in. I read that the fact he wanted to bury it shows some remorse.

The thing about him dropping out of college classes is really lame. That happens every day and it is not the colleges job to monitor attendance. The vast majority of students are >18 years old. It is not daycare. His parents didn’t even know.

I suspect it would take a June Cleaver type stay-at-home parent to put the pieces together. If the parents don’t have their shit together, if they are stressed out, then there is the potential for the internet, hate speech, and easy access to wmd to turn their son into a terrorist.

IMO, Headlines like this that imply that the red flags were all there allow the public to move on. “ Oh, Someone made a mistake. Our systems are fine. Carry-on as you were.”

[ousdahl]

yea

I've seen conflicting reports over stuff like, what exactly was shared publicly online - the dead cat pics, or other violent or bigoted type stuff. If it was all on some invite-only server that no one had access to except for a few others right before the shooting, that's more difficult to recognize a red flag.

and with the cat, yea maybe burying it shows some remorse. But at the same time it's not like he just like shooed it off with a broom and accidentally bonked it too hard or something. He repeatedly stabbed then mutilated and decapitated the poor thing, didn't he? That's classic mass murderer red flag shit.

short of June Cleaver status, it does seem like some lack of attention from parental units may have been some factor either way.

[ousdahl]

what could the cops have done?

it isn’t illegal to call people that. was he actually threatening someone, or just walking around being a racist prick?

I mean yeah I guess it's not illegal

but at the same time, and again just speculation - if some strange black dood was walking around a grocery store calling white folks bad names, (or a mooslim dood ranting about infidels?), it seems much more likely cops would have been called, or store management would have been involved or more involved, or SOME sort of something would have resulted.

And even then, I dunno what good that does. At the very least, maybe just one more chance for someone to recognize some red flag

[KUTradition]

what could the cops have done?

it isn’t illegal to call people that. was he actually threatening someone, or just walking around being a racist prick?

I mean yeah I guess it's not illegal

but at the same time, and again just speculation - if some strange black dood was walking around a grocery store calling white folks bad names, (or a mooslim dood ranting about infidels?), it seems much more likely cops would have been called, or store management would have been involved or more involved, or SOME sort of something would have resulted.

And even then, I dunno what good that does. At the very least, maybe just one more chance for someone to recognize some red flag

i don’t mean to imply that they were right in not calling…they probably should’ve

i just think it’s absurd to place blame on the employees or the company

[DrPepper]

The gun sellers are winning.
In regards to the Buffalo terrorist attack, the talking heads and headlines are now about the terrorist being mentally ill and that red flags were missed. I disagree with both.

I saw some of the video of him shooting up black people. He doesn't say a word and then you see you hear him say like "oh, sorry man." (don't quote me, I am going from memory, but he definitely opoligizes). He was talking to a white guy cowering on the floor that he had pointed his assault rifle at. He showed sympathy and was sorry that he scared the white person. White supremacy isn't a mental illness.

He didn't even come up with his own thoughts. The majority of the 600 pages that weren't what he had for lunch were mostly cut and paste from previous other killers.

What red flags were missed? His parents didn't know he had dropped out of his college classes. No one saw his diary or writings until,30 minutes before the shootings started. We know he brutally killed a cat and that his mother gave him a box to bury it in, but we do not know if his parents knew how he killed the cat. There must have been blood all over the garage, but he chased the cat for over an hour and there were two cats fighting. He was very sweet with the family pet cat and was likely seen as the hero that night for saving it from the stray cat.

And then in the final weeks of the shooter's COVID-altered senior year at high school, he logged on to a virtual learning program in economics class that asked: “What do you plan to do when you retire?” “Murder-suicide,” he typed. Despite his protests that it was all a joke, the 17-year-old who had long been viewed by classmates as a loner with good grades was questioned by state police over the possible threat and then taken into custody and to a hospital for a psychiatric evaluation under a state mental health law. But a day and a half later, he was released. And two weeks after that, he was allowed to participate in graduation festivities.

You know, psychologists or whomever aren't very good at predicting violent behavior. This is fact. They didn't miss anything.
Gun laws in NY do not apply in PA and he lived near the PA border. The magazine he had and the body armor he wore were illegal in NY.

But my point is, the more that red flags and mental illness are in the headlines, the more this tragedy gets excused and we don't evolve to do better.... just like the gun sellers want.