The Great Outdoors

[pdub]

I almost peed on a moose.

[ousdahl]

a little further down, we encounter two other hikers headed back up toward the moose, and of course they have a big floofy goldendoodle or whatever bounding around like an idiot. As soon as it sees us, it runs up and jumps all over us. We can tell it's friendly, but still annoying. Of course, they think the problem is that we got the "good boi" too excited, and not that they're letting the thing run at large.

We mention the moose to the hikers, and that it has an attitude. More than anything, they seem excited to go see it. We suggest caution, and particularly to put the dog on a leash. With tourists though, it's difficult to tell whether they appreciated the heads up, or wanted to go all but mah rights about leashing yall's dog.

[Cascadia]

Putting a dog on a leash in the wild is animal cruelty bro.

[ousdahl]

nah, putting a dog on a leash is national forest rules.

animal cruelty is the dog getting stomped by a moose.

[jhawks99]

I gotta go with Ousie on this one. Goldendoodle vs Moose isn't a fair fight.

[Cascadia]

99, you’ve made your support of animal cruelty well known.

[KUTradition]

this is why you train your dog so that it 1) can be off leash without bothering other people, and 2) listens to you and doesn’t charge wildlife

[Cascadia]

this is why you train your dog so that it 1) can be off leash without bothering other people, and 2) listens to you and doesn’t charge wildlife

Agreed. My dog is on a voice leash. 110 pound German Shepherd mix and never a single issue with other animals or people. He’s only leashed when we walk down a busy street.

[Deleted User 863]

In public, dogs should be on a leash imo. Doesn't matter how well they usually listen.

[ousdahl]

too many dog owners think running off-leash is not a matter training, but of entitlement.

the reason for the forest service leash policy is for the sake of the dogs (and humans) as much as the wildlife. In CO, the majority of moose attacks involve off-leash pets.

Unlike deer that tend to run as soon as they're bothered, a moose's instinct when he's bothered is to start stomping. They're stubborn, territorial, and dumb, but at least smart enough to know they're the biggest critters in the forest.

They don't understand a goldendoodle is just a big playful idiot of a domestic pet, they think it's a wolf or a coyote or something trying to get it. And a goldendoodle doesn't understand a moose is not playing but really is trying to stomp the good boi's head in. It's loose-loose.

And for that matter, there's other critters in the forest too. An actual wolf or cougar or bear could just as quickly think of a goldendoodle as dinner.

[jhawks99]

99, you’ve made your support of animal cruelty well known.

OK, not sure what you mean. Keeping a goldendoodle from getting stomped my a moose is animal cruelty?

[Deleted User 863]

And for that matter, there's other critters in the forest too. An actual wolf or cougar or bear could just as quickly think of a goldendoodle as dinner.

True, but a leash probably won't stop that from happening.

Either way, a leash in public is common courtesy. And if the dog is trained well enough to be off a leash, then they'll happily walk next to you on a leash just the same.

[pdub]

If a dog is well trained enough to obey without hesitation, I don’t care if they are off leash in a lot of public spots.

[ousdahl]

if a dog is well trained enough to obey without hesitation, they're prob also well trained enough to just be walking politely next to yall in the first place, so it may be moot to worry about them responding to voice commands while 100 yards up the trail jumping all over some random other hikers.

and I gotta disagree with Illy - if a dog is leashed, it does make it less likely a wild predator attacks them, cuz that means the dog is within 6 feet of its hooman. predators are less likely to attack 2 or more in a group like that, and much more likely to attack an isolated target, like a goldendoodle running at large. Heck, predators are hoping they can get a goldendoodle-sized animal isolated all alone, and here yall are just teeing it up for them!

and if, heaven forbid, a predator attacks you, wouldn't you rather have your dog right next to you to help discourage and potentially fight back, rather than having the good boi obliviously jumping all over strangers 100 yards up the trail?

[ousdahl]

I was actually just talking to a wildlife biologist about this. Dude is studying wolves and their impact on cattle ranches up in North Park, about an hour from here.

He said that while big cats are more of an isolate and ambush kind of predator, wolves more so try to isolate and...out-run? I was trying to figure out how to describe this. I guess the word is "cursorial," which means "having limbs adapted for running. "

So while a cougar hunts solo and uses stealth and surprise for one quick opportune strike, wolves hunt as a team. They're less afraid to make their presence known, then identify and isolate a young or hurt or otherwise vulnerable prey, then turn it into an endurance contest and basically dare you to try to outrun the pack.

But in either case, the predator is counting on isolating a single target.

I learned the term "cursorial" from this article just now btw. And of course, there's exceptions to everything, and examples of wolves using lone ambush hunting techniques too. Also, has anyone seen my roommate?

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 151819.htm

[ousdahl]

speaking of, that's yet another wildlife biologist who quietly acknowledges wolves are up in Rocky Mountain NP.

I guess they officially don't admit they're there, I think for the sake of not having to deal with feds coming in and imposing a bunch of endangered species act red tape, or something? But CO recently voted to actively implement a wolf reintroduction management plan for the state. Ranchers and old timers like to be all "but why do we need a reintroduction management plan when wolves have already been here all along," but that's the thing - now the state can actually acknowledge the animals and actively manage them, rather than have to pretend they aren't there.

but yea, I guess rmnp rangers have been describing them as "very large coyotes," lol. I kinda wanna go look for myself, but apparently they're super elusive. At the same time, an apex predator can only hide for so long, right? Especially ones who tend to live in packs, and are less sneaky about ambushing cuz they know they can outrun you, and cuz they're prone to howling and shit.

[ousdahl]

[jhawks99]

Never piss off a moose

[KUTradition]

sigh…

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2022/05/ ... al-tragedy

speaking to a colleague in central Florida, it seems the situation is even more dire than the article indicates…and there is virtually zero initiative to do anything about it

[Deleted User 863]

Population keeps growning. World stays the same size.