serve and protect

[ousdahl]

Is the actual health care in those countries "better" than in the USA? Or is it just free/universal?

I mean, I'm sure there are certain specialists for certain ailments that are worth seeking either way. I'd guess those tend to be in more developed areas.

but, it's not "just" free/universal. It's a citizen being able to access healthcare without fear of personal financial ruin. In that regard, the US is the only developed country that doesn't provide that to its citizens.

[ousdahl]

The border patrol hits just keep on hitting today.

[zsn]

I am happy with my healthcare in the USA. I was happier before the insurance companies were forced to cover those with pre existing conditions though, because it was cheaper. Although much of my health insurance is covered by my employer, which is a nice employment benefit and influences my OPINION.

I do think EVERYONE should have access to healthcare. I just don't think private health insurance companies are the way to achieve that.


I know you don't actually care Q but here's a ranking of healthcare by country....

https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... -the-world

USA is 18th.

Employer sponsored health care coverage is the absolute singular worst thing that happened to the health of US citizens.

If you are not able to access healthcare what difference does it make as to how good it is? You’ll never know and never get to find out.

[KUTradition]

the quality of healthcare itself means jack shit if 1) people don’t have access to it, or 2) it’s so expensive that by the time they do access it, it’s “too late”

free healthcare, at least in most instances i’m aware of, isn’t 100% free across the board for everything. rather, and this is important, regular check-ups involving preventative care are free

healthcare outcomes are what is ultimately what is most important, and the US is a laughing stock when it comes to outcomes as a return on investment

[ousdahl]

Shirley used to fuss about how healthcare accounts for like 1/5 of the U.S. total GDP.

And even as yuge as our GDP is - yugest in the world, a whopping $19 trillion, some $7 trillion bigger than the next biggest country, China...so that means we spend like over $4-ish trillion a year JUST ON HEALTHCARE?, which is more than the entire GDP of every country besides us and China - next biggest is Japan at around $5t, Germany around $4t, and India around $2t.

and yet, we're still 18th in healthcare.

It's almost like commodifying ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING isn't the greatest idea.

not to mention things like, back in the 50s the entire doctor bill for a child birth would be like $65 dollars.

but let's go full Qusdahl! Wasn't the first country to offer comprehensive universal healthcare to its citizens the Soviets? And the "employer-provided" bullshit was our own capitalist-controlled country's response to keeping up with the joneses...so, rather than just come out and admit maybe the commies had a good idea about something after all, we instead made it about "if you wanna go to the doctor then you better fucking be employed...and employed in the right kind of work, in an industry that isn't gonna tell you don't deserve the benefit of going to a doctor.

...but at least I bet those healthcare execs have nice vacation homes?

[ousdahl]

I can't get over what a racket health insurance is, too.

For a healthy young adult who prob doesn't even go to the doctor beyond a periodical routine checkup, it's often well over $500 a month, right? And that's JUST the premium. That's not to mention deductibles often in the $5000+ range anyway. And if, heaven forbid, you get sick or hurt, you still have to worry about being in the right network, or worry about mystery bills from some specialist, or worry about your insurance company generally coming up with reasons not to cover you anyway.

landlords are a racket too, but at least you're getting something tangible in return, in the form of a roof over your head every month you pay, right? Health insurance is an expense that, in many ways, you're never gonna see again.

[ousdahl]

Oh, and thee best part!

Rather than the average Merican learning to organize and stand up for ourselves and demand better like Qusdahl wants, we’d rather melt down about how the real problem is Qusdahl.

[TDub]

health care and landlords aren't even in the same stratosphere

[TDub]

Oh, and thee best part!

Rather than the average Merican learning to organize and stand up for ourselves and demand better like Qusdahl wants, we’d rather melt down about how the real problem is Qusdahl.

poor you. fighting the good fight all on your lonesome.

[twocoach]

Shirley used to fuss about how healthcare accounts for like 1/5 of the U.S. total GDP.

And even as yuge as our GDP is - yugest in the world, a whopping $19 trillion, some $7 trillion bigger than the next biggest country, China...so that means we spend like over $4-ish trillion a year JUST ON HEALTHCARE?, which is more than the entire GDP of every country besides us and China - next biggest is Japan at around $5t, Germany around $4t, and India around $2t.

and yet, we're still 18th in healthcare.

It's almost like commodifying ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING isn't the greatest idea.

not to mention things like, back in the 50s the entire doctor bill for a child birth would be like $65 dollars.

but let's go full Qusdahl! Wasn't the first country to offer comprehensive universal healthcare to its citizens the Soviets? And the "employer-provided" bullshit was our own capitalist-controlled country's response to keeping up with the joneses...so, rather than just come out and admit maybe the commies had a good idea about something after all, we instead made it about "if you wanna go to the doctor then you better fucking be employed...and employed in the right kind of work, in an industry that isn't gonna tell you don't deserve the benefit of going to a doctor.

...but at least I bet those healthcare execs have nice vacation homes?

And back in the 50s mothers and babies who experienced any sort of abnormal issues during childbirth were at a serious risk of death. Would anyone today choose to go back to a 1950s hospital for their healthcare if they were guaranteed the 1950s price? Maybe for the most basic of needs but not anything of note.

We now have all sorts of fancy ways to greatly increase the chances of a child's birth being successful and healthy but those advancements cost money and that money creates wealth and power that a few people quickly get used to enjoying. But that increased money now is also spent by health care providers to give us a much more advanced level of care at every level. It's a vicious cycle. Capitalism 101.

[twocoach]

51 years ago, my parents had their first child. She was born with a congenital heart defect that had she been born even 5 years later, would have been treatable. Instead she died at 2 months old. My parents made a donation to the hospital that was put towards purchasing the hospital's first ultrasound machine. A machine that now exists in virtually every basic general practitioners office today.

Different times, different costs, different experiences. Yes, I wish healthcare was cheaper and yes, I fully believe that greed for profits is driving up the costs to American citizens. But I am glad to be alive in a day and age where I have such a great chance to live a healthier life.

[MICHHAWK]

you have trashed the police.

now you have shifted to healthcare.

can you rail on the daycare system next. i know families with multiple children in daycare. and they have told me that their daycare expense is now their single biggest monthly expense. bigger than the mortgage.

can you trash daycare next.

[ousdahl]

Shirley used to fuss about how healthcare accounts for like 1/5 of the U.S. total GDP.

And even as yuge as our GDP is - yugest in the world, a whopping $19 trillion, some $7 trillion bigger than the next biggest country, China...so that means we spend like over $4-ish trillion a year JUST ON HEALTHCARE?, which is more than the entire GDP of every country besides us and China - next biggest is Japan at around $5t, Germany around $4t, and India around $2t.

and yet, we're still 18th in healthcare.

It's almost like commodifying ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING isn't the greatest idea.

not to mention things like, back in the 50s the entire doctor bill for a child birth would be like $65 dollars.

but let's go full Qusdahl! Wasn't the first country to offer comprehensive universal healthcare to its citizens the Soviets? And the "employer-provided" bullshit was our own capitalist-controlled country's response to keeping up with the joneses...so, rather than just come out and admit maybe the commies had a good idea about something after all, we instead made it about "if you wanna go to the doctor then you better fucking be employed...and employed in the right kind of work, in an industry that isn't gonna tell you don't deserve the benefit of going to a doctor.

...but at least I bet those healthcare execs have nice vacation homes?

And back in the 50s mothers and babies who experienced any sort of abnormal issues during childbirth were at a serious risk of death. Would anyone today choose to go back to a 1950s hospital for their healthcare if they were guaranteed the 1950s price? Maybe for the most basic of needs but not anything of note.

We now have all sorts of fancy ways to greatly increase the chances of a child's birth being successful and healthy but those advancements cost money and that money creates wealth and power that a few people quickly get used to enjoying. But that increased money now is also spent by health care providers to give us a much more advanced level of care at every level. It's a vicious cycle. Capitalism 101.

great argument!

cuz a cursory search suggests actually the US has among the highest maternal mortality rates in the developed world; ranked around countries like Oman, Moldova, and everybody's favorite, Ukraine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... lity_ratio

And US infant mortality rates are something like 55th best in the world, around the same as the United Arab Emirates.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... d_Factbook

but at least we still spend the most on healthcare, right? Capitalism 101.

[ousdahl]

51 years ago, my parents had their first child. She was born with a congenital heart defect that had she been born even 5 years later, would have been treatable. Instead she died at 2 months old. My parents made a donation to the hospital that was put towards purchasing the hospital's first ultrasound machine. A machine that now exists in virtually every basic general practitioners office today.

Different times, different costs, different experiences. Yes, I wish healthcare was cheaper and yes, I fully believe that greed for profits is driving up the costs to American citizens. But I am glad to be alive in a day and age where I have such a great chance to live a healthier life.

that's rough man, sorry to hear.

I too wish healthcare was cheaper, and that greed for profits is driving up the cost.

and yeah it's great that generally healthcare continues to improve.

but re: chance to live a healthier life, aren't many such metrics in the US trending in the wrong direction?

[ousdahl]

you have trashed the police.

now you have shifted to healthcare.

can you rail on the daycare system next. i know families with multiple children in daycare. and they have told me that their daycare expense is now their single biggest monthly expense. bigger than the mortgage.

can you trash daycare next.

all I'd like to say for now is, daycare should be easily accessible to parents, and daycare workers deserve a living wage too.

[TDub]

everybody deserves everything at no cost to the consumer. make it happen! No one should be forced to make choices that impact their lives...thats what the government is supposed to for us!

[twocoach]

you have trashed the police.

now you have shifted to healthcare.

can you rail on the daycare system next. i know families with multiple children in daycare. and they have told me that their daycare expense is now their single biggest monthly expense. bigger than the mortgage.

can you trash daycare next.

all I'd like to say for now is, daycare should be easily accessible to parents, and daycare workers deserve a living wage too.

So we should raise the pay of daycare providers while also making it "easily accessible" (AKA "cheaper")? Curious to see how that works.

[ousdahl]

again, when the rest of the world has had it figured out for a while now, it would just be nice if we could keep up.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/06/upsh ... biden.html

ah fuck it, why am I arguing about childcare? you loosers are the ones with kids!

[TDub]

print more money! why can't the government pay the daycare providers and make all daycare free! see...easy. you won't feel the inflation if everything is free.

[twocoach]

print more money! why can't the government pay the daycare providers and make all daycare free! see...easy. you won't feel the inflation if everything is free.

There are a million adjustments that could be made to the process that would result in a net benefit to everyday Americans but everyday Americans keep putting dumbfucks in charge that do not make enough of those changes.

Everyone wants the government to fix everything while also wanting less government regulations and oversight. It's a neverending cycle of stupidity. A chunk of people bitch about the politicians that get elected but don't get out and vote. A chunk of people vote but don't pay attention to the stances and platform goals of those they vote for. As a nation we are too self absorbed, uneducated about our world outside of what directly affected our own daily lives and lazy.