Who is the GOAT

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

Rent free.

If it truly matters to you that you feel LeBron lives rent free in my head, and you feel the need to continuously post it, perhaps someone is living "rent free" in YOUR head?
If not, then by all means I am happy for you continue with your charade - for both of our sakes - and Illy's too.




Whitlock has what I feel are some good thoughts/opinions and maybe LeBron does deserve praise for NOT being "phony and fake"?

https://www.sportskeeda.com/basketball/ ... cial-media

[NDballer13]

LeBron posts something - Man I wish he would shut up!
LeBron doesn't post anything - How com LeBron hasn't said anything yet?!

Sure, I can agree it's odd he hasn't publicly said anything, but at the same time it's really odd that only his haters would be the ones to make Bill Russell's death an issue about LeBron. Literally anything to say how terrible he is, lol.

You realize that you basically supported my "argument". Right?
First off, I in NO WAY said nor meant to imply I felt LeBron was "terrible" for not acknowledging BR's death.
For a guy who loves attention, I was a bit surprised he didn't feel a desire to publicly pay his respects to a man that was considered one of the greatest to play the game. That's all. You and others want to assume and make something else about my feelings, cool.

One question. How many LeBron "haters" that you know paid for and own his Olympic Jersey, have paid to see HIM play, own multiple pairs of his shoes - that they wear, have taken photos of him, etc.?
I don't "hate" LeBron. I hate very few people. Sure, I absolutely do find what I feel to be justifiable fault/s with him, just as I find fault/s with my mother - who I love more than anyone else in the world.
I have given LeBron praise at times too. No doubt I feel the man very well may be the best to have ever played the game. He's typically (but not always) a good man off the court and has my admiration for many things he has done and continues to do. No, I don't "love" LeBron but I sure as heck don't hate him.

P.S. I have ridiculed Michael Jordan for various things too. He's probably a worse guy than LeBron and maybe was not as good of a basketball player as LeBron either.

You realize my statement was in no way trying to counter your "argument", or even support it. Right?

Thought you were past thinking every post was a direct reply to you. Had that been the case, I would have done what I did with this post and "quoted" what I'm replying to.

My post was a stand alone thought about how people feel the need to bring his name into anything, even when the topic being discussed has nothing to do with him. And it's usually the "haters" that are the ones doing it. That's all.

[KUTradition]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2 ... pionships/

Bill Russell really was the greatest of all time

If we’re all on a playground in the afterlife and we’re choosing up sides to decide who goes to heaven or hell, then my first pick is Bill Russell.

You can have anybody else you want. You take Michael Jordan, then I get LeBron James. You get Larry Bird, then I get Magic Johnson. Jerry West or Stephen Curry. And so on. They cancel each other out, pretty much, because none of their skill sets are unique. All of them — anybody you would pick with eternity on the line — would, first of all, be an offensive-end-of-the-court star.

But I’d have Russell, by far the greatest player who barely needed to touch the ball yet scored enough for the sake of proper balance without being fed. I’d have Russell, who got the ball back for his team by both rebounding and controlled shot blocking better than anybody ever, even Wilt Chamberlain. I’d have Bill, who covered his man but, if you lost yours, made the guy wish that you still were defending him.

Russell would subtly change everyone’s game — his whole team’s for the better and everyone on your team’s for the worse. But nobody would make him change his game at all. And we would win. Don’t think so? Enjoy hell…

[pdub]

I'll enjoy hell then.
I think Duncan ( and the aforementioned Wilt ) was better.

[KUTradition]

I'll enjoy hell then.
I think Duncan ( and the aforementioned Wilt ) was better.

i don’t consider BR the GOAT, but appreciate where the author is coming from

his narratives of the Russell-Wilt matchups are awesome

Russell being able to single-handedly shut down Wilt, i think, speaks volumes about his abilities

but i’m also a bigger fan of elite D than i am elite O

[Deleted User 863]

Dare I say he's slightly overrated historically?

[pdub]

I think he definitely is.
But that doesn't change the fact he was one of the two best players in the NBA for a good period of time.

[KUTradition]

He’s not the GOAT because he was the greatest defender in NBA history. In fact, he may be the greatest defensive force in any of the four major sports — more impactful in preventing scoring than any NFL pass rusher, NHL goalie or pitcher who only starts every few days.
And Russell is not the GOAT just because of his talents: rebounding (22.5 per game), shot blocking (the best ever), enough scoring (15.1 points), smart passing and igniting the fast break with outlet passes as well as any big man ever has.

Russell was all these things, as well as the player-coach on his last two title teams. However, what Russell had to a greater degree than any player I have ever seen in any sport was ferocious, indomitable seriousness of purpose, wedded to elite intelligence regarding both his sport and his opponent’s psychological weaknesses. His walk to center court evoked a wise, ominous warrior.

Russell sprinted the court — sweat dripping from his goatee, his long limbs pumping — as if he was prepared to die of exhaustion before permitting his team to lose. His presence, his competitive menace, his fearless, reckless abandon in midair and his desire to glare into the opponent’s psyche and break some crucial gear made him exhilarating and frightening to watch.

I remind my colleagues that Russell was 6-foot-10, but his wingspan was 7-foot-4. In a famous anecdote, Russell met his perfect foil — Chamberlain — for a photo op when Wilt entered the NBA. The photographers wanted a side-by-side, the subtext being that the chiseled, 7-1, 275-pound Wilt was Goliath to the lean David of Russell.

Then Russell asked for a shot with both holding their hands as far as they could reach over their heads. With his long arms, Russell had a fingertip advantage. Bill was taller in some basketball sense — and as a champion high jumper in college, Russell probably had a vertical edge.
…
In all four of those postseasons, Russell faced Wilt. In the first three years, Wilt was joined in Philly by three other future Hall of Famers — Hal Greer, Chet “the Jet” Walker and Billy Cunningham, as well as hulking all-star Luke Jackson and Wali “Wonder” Jones. In two of those years, six-time all-star Larry Costello came off the bench.

In the fourth season, Wilt was traded to the Lakers to join Jerry West and Elgin Baylor, creating a Three Supernova team that the 21st century hasn’t matched, since at the time, that trio was believed by some to include the best guard, forward and center in history.
The Celtics won the title in three of those four years.

In Russell’s final game — a Game 7 for the ring, naturally — Chamberlain took only eight shots and was so competitively broken by Russell’s career-long ownership of him that the Lakers benched him in the late moments of a 108-106 game.

Was Wilt rattled that Russell would pick the biggest spot to swat his “unblockable” fallaway jump shot or reject his fearsome power dunk? Or did fear of the free throw line (45 percent that year) make him a mess, too?…

[CrimsonNBlue]

One of the things that has always kept me from downgrading Kareem and Russell are their pre-NBA days.

Kareem is probably the greatest "amateur" basketball player of all time.

Russell won 50+ straight games and 2 NCAA titles. At f-n San Francisco.

[CrimsonNBlue]

He’s not the GOAT because he was the greatest defender in NBA history. In fact, he may be the greatest defensive force in any of the four major sports — more impactful in preventing scoring than any NFL pass rusher, NHL goalie or pitcher who only starts every few days.
And Russell is not the GOAT just because of his talents: rebounding (22.5 per game), shot blocking (the best ever), enough scoring (15.1 points), smart passing and igniting the fast break with outlet passes as well as any big man ever has.

Russell was all these things, as well as the player-coach on his last two title teams. However, what Russell had to a greater degree than any player I have ever seen in any sport was ferocious, indomitable seriousness of purpose, wedded to elite intelligence regarding both his sport and his opponent’s psychological weaknesses. His walk to center court evoked a wise, ominous warrior.

Russell sprinted the court — sweat dripping from his goatee, his long limbs pumping — as if he was prepared to die of exhaustion before permitting his team to lose. His presence, his competitive menace, his fearless, reckless abandon in midair and his desire to glare into the opponent’s psyche and break some crucial gear made him exhilarating and frightening to watch.

I remind my colleagues that Russell was 6-foot-10, but his wingspan was 7-foot-4. In a famous anecdote, Russell met his perfect foil — Chamberlain — for a photo op when Wilt entered the NBA. The photographers wanted a side-by-side, the subtext being that the chiseled, 7-1, 275-pound Wilt was Goliath to the lean David of Russell.

Then Russell asked for a shot with both holding their hands as far as they could reach over their heads. With his long arms, Russell had a fingertip advantage. Bill was taller in some basketball sense — and as a champion high jumper in college, Russell probably had a vertical edge.
…
In all four of those postseasons, Russell faced Wilt. In the first three years, Wilt was joined in Philly by three other future Hall of Famers — Hal Greer, Chet “the Jet” Walker and Billy Cunningham, as well as hulking all-star Luke Jackson and Wali “Wonder” Jones. In two of those years, six-time all-star Larry Costello came off the bench.

In the fourth season, Wilt was traded to the Lakers to join Jerry West and Elgin Baylor, creating a Three Supernova team that the 21st century hasn’t matched, since at the time, that trio was believed by some to include the best guard, forward and center in history.
The Celtics won the title in three of those four years.

In Russell’s final game — a Game 7 for the ring, naturally — Chamberlain took only eight shots and was so competitively broken by Russell’s career-long ownership of him that the Lakers benched him in the late moments of a 108-106 game.

Was Wilt rattled that Russell would pick the biggest spot to swat his “unblockable” fallaway jump shot or reject his fearsome power dunk? Or did fear of the free throw line (45 percent that year) make him a mess, too?…

It's quite plausible that Russell was averaging a triple double before Oscar ever did it.

And then to think how we measure greatness today which is basically encapsulated by the NBA Finals MVP award: what players play the best on the biggest stage and win?

Russell's 11 titles came in just 13 seasons. He could have had something like 8+ Finals MVP's. And yes, the league was just way different back then with so few teams and no free agency, but neither Wilt nor Oscar were doing anything close to that.

I don't think I could make a Top 10 greatest list without Russell. I don't think I'd have him top 5, but some have him either 2 or 3 behind one or both of MJ and Kareem. Just given how we look at greatness now (and the aforementioned NCAA career), I think there is at least an argument.

[KUTradition]

“ Russell's 11 titles came in just 13 seasons. He could have had something like 8+ Finals MVP's. And yes, the league was just way different back then with so few teams and no free agency, but neither Wilt nor Oscar were doing anything close to that.”

i don’t think these points can be over-stated. obviously the game was different then, but those achievements having taken place during the careers of two guys that near unanimous top 10/top 5 GOATS is amazing

i also think his abilities would’ve translated much better to the modern game than some others…hustle, tenacity and D

[pdub]

Russell had John Havlicek, Sam Jones and Bob Cousy - all of them on most people's top 100 lists.
( Havlicek on some top 25 lists )
The Celtics teams were pretty stacked ( compared to the rest of the league ).
And there were what, 8 teams?

[CrimsonNBlue]

“ Russell's 11 titles came in just 13 seasons. He could have had something like 8+ Finals MVP's. And yes, the league was just way different back then with so few teams and no free agency, but neither Wilt nor Oscar were doing anything close to that.”

i don’t think these points can be over-stated. obviously the game was different then, but those achievements having taken place during the careers of two guys that near unanimous top 10/top 5 GOATS is amazing

i also think his abilities would’ve translated much better to the modern game than some others…hustle, tenacity and D

The narrative has always been, Wilt cared about himself and Russell cared about winning. It's well known that Wilt once led the league in assists, but that can actually be seen as a product of Wilt's flaw as some would argue it was just chasing more individual accolades (which he kind of admitted).

One thing I have always personally felt, though, is that if Wilt had the foresight to know that basketball player legacy would be based a lot on championships, that he would have more and would have been a lot better teammate. Basketball is just so much different now, though--fans care and think about it way more and differently.

edit: on Wilt translating to today's game, though, I think he would be just fine. Anecdotal, but there are so many accounts of people saying he was one of the strongest athletes of all time, not just among basketball players. The stories are Bo Jackson-like.

[Deleted User 863]

So Wilt was a state chaser like Westbrook?

[KUTradition]

“ Russell's 11 titles came in just 13 seasons. He could have had something like 8+ Finals MVP's. And yes, the league was just way different back then with so few teams and no free agency, but neither Wilt nor Oscar were doing anything close to that.”

i don’t think these points can be over-stated. obviously the game was different then, but those achievements having taken place during the careers of two guys that near unanimous top 10/top 5 GOATS is amazing

i also think his abilities would’ve translated much better to the modern game than some others…hustle, tenacity and D

The narrative has always been, Wilt cared about himself and Russell cared about winning. It's well known that Wilt once led the league in assists, but that can actually be seen as a product of Wilt's flaw as some would argue it was just chasing more individual accolades (which he kind of admitted).

One thing I have always personally felt, though, is that if Wilt had the foresight to know that basketball player legacy would be based a lot on championships, that he would have more and would have been a lot better teammate. Basketball is just so much different now, though--fans care and think about it way more and differently.

edit: on Wilt translating to today's game, though, I think he would be just fine. Anecdotal, but there are so many accounts of people saying he was one of the strongest athletes of all time, not just among basketball players. The stories are Bo Jackson-like.

i agree completely about Wilt (and wasn’t at all referencing him with my comment)

[KUTradition]

i’m not even gonna post it cuz it’s such a joke, but Nick Wright has a running Top 50 list in which he just revealed Kareem as no. 2

he doesn’t have Wilt or Russell even in the top 50

[CrimsonNBlue]

i’m not even gonna post it cuz it’s such a joke, but Nick Wright has a running Top 50 list in which he just revealed Kareem as no. 2

he doesn’t have Wilt or Russell even in the top 50

Nick Wright is a clown sports talking head.

Now that we got that out of the way--I believe I saw part of that list and it was only players since like the 70's.

[Cascadia]

Nick Wright might be the biggest clown is all of sports commentary.

[Overlander]

Nick Wright might be the biggest clown is all of sports commentary.

SAS says ..."nah"

[Deleted User 863]

Nick Wright might be the biggest clown is all of sports commentary.

SAS says ..."nah"

Skip Bayless says hello.