NFL 2022

[CrimsonNBlue]

i’m sure there are other examples, but trent dilfer won a SB

is it easier with a top flight QB? absolutely

is it necessary? nope

I've always been of the opinion that within a single regime/window, without an elite QB an NFL team can win one Super Bowl, but not two. I think that's largely been true in the modern era. The hard line here would be Eli Manning--not sure if elite, but I think he was a franchise QB.

And the Ravens won that one by being all-time great on the other side of the ball.

Yep. The Ravens used a similar formula to win one in 2012 that they used to win one in 2000. Just entirely different regimes. Don't know for sure, but I think other NFL teams look at that and think that's how it's done because getting lucky on QB is a crapshoot. I think the Alex Smith era Chiefs kind of used that formula. That was an incredibly well-oiled machine to win all those games. But I don't think they were ever the AFC favorite. I could see Pats being like that with Mac Jones.

[KUTradition]

i’m sure there are other examples, but trent dilfer won a SB

is it easier with a top flight QB? absolutely

is it necessary? nope

I've always been of the opinion that within a single regime/window, without an elite QB an NFL team can win one Super Bowl, but not two. I think that's largely been true in the modern era. The hard line here would be Eli Manning--not sure if elite, but I think he was a franchise QB.

i used to be as much of a Giants fan as i am a Chiefs fan, and there is no way i’d call Eli elite

that SB, as sweet as it was for who they beat and the ruining of that perfect season, was quite lucky

they’re D was decent, but nowhere near Ravens-level

[CrimsonNBlue]

“Elite” gets a little subjective. Was Eli top 10? I think somewhere in that area. I think a Top 10 QB can win 2 SB’s. Gets super hairy at like Top 13-15. That’s on the line or if we’re going to draft a new QB or not.

[pdub]

You have your Nick Foles.
You have your Jimmy G ( who was a couple plays - Pat's heave to Hill and his missed throw to Emmanuel Sanders - away from a Super Bowl ).

[twocoach]

The day I stopped trying to analyze NFL QBs as a whole was the day I realized the Chicago Bears were 11-3 in the regular season with Mitch Trubisky as their starter in 2018 AND he made the fricking Pro Bowl (as an alternate).
In 2018 was Trubisky a top 10 QB? No. Was he a top 20? Maybe.

37% of the NFL made the playoffs back then (12 of 32) and now it's up to 43%. So it doesn't take an elite QB to make the playoffs. The teams trying to go from playoff teams to true Super Bowl contenders are inevitably the ones who make desperate QB decisions trying to upgrade the position. Sometimes it works out (Bucs/Rams) and sometimes it doesn't. In general, teams making the NFL playoffs seem to be much more likely to get there with a QB that they drafted than a QB they signed via free agency or traded for.

I think the parity in the NFL means that any elite QB is very likely going to stay with the team that drafted him. You can pretty much build a winner anywhere. Of course, there are places I wouldn't want to live (e.g. Green Bay, Buffalo, . . .) but it hasn't stopped many from re-upping the contract.

I think Stafford as an outlier is just a lot because the Lions is the dumpster fire organization of the NFL and then you have the Chargers whom made the egregious mistake of wrongly believing Drew Brees's height wasn't going to cut it. Tom Brady is some kind of alien that figured out how to beat Father Time.

Then you have what I would call weird limbo situations, which also seem rare, I would put Alex Smith and Kirk Cousins here. Yeah, you're going to make the playoffs, win games, sell a ton of tickets, but need to get pretty lucky to hoist the big trophy.

And then I think a lot of bad free agency signings.

Four of the last seven Super Bowl champions have had QBs that they signed as free agents or traded for (Rams w/Stafford, Bucs w/Brady, Eagles w/ Foles and Broncos w/ Manning) so recent history may be leading more teams to try to take a shot on an established player when it becomes clear that the dude they drafted isn't going to be the dude that wins them a Super Bowl. The Foles situation with him only playing due to Wentz's injury is a bit of an outlier but teams seem to be more willing to take a shot at this than they used to.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Somehow forgot about Peyton. I also think that was a pretty unique situation. Seemed like there was a real threat he'd never play football again before going to Denver.

I still would not fall out of my chair or anything if Andrew Luck all of the sudden signs with a contender without a franchise QB.

[pdub]

Dude ( Peyton ) degraded pretty hard that season.
Probably super frustrating to be out there, knowing the reads, but having to tear apart your spine just to make an 8 yard toss.

[twocoach]

Somehow forgot about Peyton. I also think that was a pretty unique situation. Seemed like there was a real threat he'd never play football again before going to Denver.

I still would not fall out of my chair or anything if Andrew Luck all of the sudden signs with a contender without a franchise QB.

Seems like these pretty unique situations happen just often enough that teams think they can catch lightning in a bottle and have it work out for them. The trade for Watson just reeks of desperation to become a SB contender at all costs. I hope it fails miserably and cripples the Browns organization for several years.

[pdub]

I think it will.

I bet Watson is suspended this full season. Then there's a non zero chance he sues, binding him in legal issues for the foreseeable future. That's two plus years of time away from football - all the while they loose multiple draft picks.

Browns were 11-5 ( finished 12-6 ) just 2 years ago with a road win @ rival Pittsburgh, their first playoff win in 20+ years.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Somehow forgot about Peyton. I also think that was a pretty unique situation. Seemed like there was a real threat he'd never play football again before going to Denver.

I still would not fall out of my chair or anything if Andrew Luck all of the sudden signs with a contender without a franchise QB.

Seems like these pretty unique situations happen just often enough that teams think they can catch lightning in a bottle and have it work out for them. The trade for Watson just reeks of desperation to become a SB contender at all costs. I hope it fails miserably and cripples the Browns organization for several years.

To me, the common denominator is the teams' QB's before they go out and sign a big name FA.

Rams had Jared Goff, Bucs had Jameis Winston, Broncos had Tim Tebow, Broncos had Drew Lock, etc. Those are bottom half QB's. When you're in that situation and have a good roster otherwise, teams are thinking that they might as well roll the dice. If you fail, you're in the same spot you would have been in anyway. Success could mean Super Bowl appearance.

Of course, with Watson's background, you're betting a lot longer shot and looking like assholes in the process. Hope it does cripple the regime.

[pdub]

I think success for some teams, i.e. Denver, would be simply a playoff win, or hell, even making the playoffs.

Denver hasn't been there since Manning retired.

[hartjack8]

Man that Goff for Stafford trade. Do the Rams win with Goff?? What about they make the trade two years prior do the Rams have three rings??

So pretty sure Watson asked for trade before all stuff came out. I remember maybe that the dumbass OC for Alabama was blowing up the Texans and he said adios. Which was before last year.
So you are of the opinion that if Watson wanted to show up and play last year the NFL would have been totally cool with it?? Absolutely freaking no chance.

[CrimsonNBlue]

So you are of the opinion that if Watson wanted to show up and play last year the NFL would have been totally cool with it??

It would be speculation either way. Watson sat last year out on his own volition, so legally and practically, it was not a league suspension for his conduct. That matters a lot.

[hartjack8]

So you are of the opinion that if Watson wanted to show up and play last year the NFL would have been totally cool with it??

It would be speculation either way. Watson sat last year out on his own volition, so legally and practically, it was not a league suspension for his conduct. That matters a lot.

No way. Carolina and Miami both wanted Watson last year. The only reason Cleveland makes that trade is because he sat out last year. There was a deal on the table for Watson to sit out 12 games this year but he turned it down because it had like 10 million fine as well. The Texans play the browns in week 13 and NFL is not letting that happen with Watson on the field. The NFL controlled that whole situation last year and Watson no way sat out on his own volition.

[CrimsonNBlue]

So you are of the opinion that if Watson wanted to show up and play last year the NFL would have been totally cool with it??

It would be speculation either way. Watson sat last year out on his own volition, so legally and practically, it was not a league suspension for his conduct. That matters a lot.

No way. Carolina and Miami both wanted Watson last year. The only reason Cleveland makes that trade is because he sat out last year. There was a deal on the table for Watson to sit out 12 games this year but he turned it down because it had like 10 million fine as well. The Texans play the browns in week 13 and NFL is not letting that happen with Watson on the field. The NFL controlled that whole situation last year and Watson no way sat out on his own volition.

Perhaps DeShaun's lawyers would welcome any amicus briefs that you or anyone else are willing to submit.

[hartjack8]

Let me clarify. Teams were willing to trade for Watson ly but were told that he would not play. This year Cleveland makes that trade with the understanding that Watson would play this year. Watson had a deal to sit out 12 games but turned it down and then got six which pissed of NFL and now they going to get him. Clear.

[hartjack8]

It would be speculation either way. Watson sat last year out on his own volition, so legally and practically, it was not a league suspension for his conduct. That matters a lot.

No way. Carolina and Miami both wanted Watson last year. The only reason Cleveland makes that trade is because he sat out last year. There was a deal on the table for Watson to sit out 12 games this year but he turned it down because it had like 10 million fine as well. The Texans play the browns in week 13 and NFL is not letting that happen with Watson on the field. The NFL controlled that whole situation last year and Watson no way sat out on his own volition.

Perhaps DeShaun's lawyers would welcome any amicus briefs that you or anyone else are willing to submit.

LOL you should tell his lawyers just play along it is going to be ok

[hartjack8]

I really have to question Watson not his lawyers. To come out of this with the contract he got no question he has good representation. I would have to think it was Watson's call not to take the deal with NFL but who knows. They won but they going to lose for sure and the lawyers would have seen that coming.

[Sparko]

I really have to question Watson not his lawyers. To come out of this with the contract he got no question he has good representation. I would have to think it was Watson's call not to take the deal with NFL but who knows. They won but they going to lose for sure and the lawyers would have seen that coming.

He has come to expect happy endings. And that is all that needs to be said.

[Overlander]

I really have to question Watson not his lawyers. To come out of this with the contract he got no question he has good representation. I would have to think it was Watson's call not to take the deal with NFL but who knows. They won but they going to lose for sure and the lawyers would have seen that coming.

He has come to expect happy endings. And that is all that needs to be said.

Pretty much demands them....