Let’s have a war!

[ousdahl]

I guess one big question I have is, weren't we homies with soviet Russia in WW2?

Coincidentally enough, in a bid not to support, but to defeat the nazis.

But we quickly became adversaries with soviet Russia anyway, with the red scare and what not.

What changed?

Was there some specific moment in time? Was it again more hegemony concerns?

Please tell me it was something better than, Merica freaked out at the thought of some other world power that actually wants to provide its people healthcare.

[japhy]

Like I've said all along, the "de-nazify" rhetoric from Putin is bullshit. It's more about power and hegemony, or maybe even just good old fashioned imperial ego battles.

And yet you keep bringing it up and tacitly defending Putin's position by stating that Azov has killed people with the US supplied weapons. You can't have it both ways. And you can't pretend that soldiers killing an invading force is somehow anything but a survival tactic and self defense.

[japhy]

if you only respond to one question I've post here for you, please let it be this one:

if Putin called you personally today and said, "I'll knock it off with this whole Ukrainian invasion bullshit, if you can get your country to knock it off with the whole pouring weapons into Ukraine thing," would you make that deal?

Fuck no!

Anyone who believes anything Putin spouts is a dumbass to ignore his history. At this point you keep the pressure on Putin until the rest of Russia decides they are tired of suffering the consequences of his delusional crusade and he is removed from power.

[japhy]

I guess one big question I have is, weren't we homies with soviet Russia in WW2?

Coincidentally enough, in a bid not to support, but to defeat the nazis.

But we quickly became adversaries with soviet Russia anyway, with the red scare and what not.

What changed?

Was there some specific moment in time? Was it again more hegemony concerns?

Please tell me it was something better than, Merica freaked out at the thought of some other world power that actually wants to provide its people healthcare.

You really should go visit a library. Read up on European history; and don't ask me to give you a book list. You seem to be capable of finding lots of Russian propaganda on your own. Now go find some history from a different point of view than Putin's myopic viewpoint as a former KGB officer. Come back in a week or two and give us a book report.

[ousdahl]

Japhy, kindly spare me with the "tacitly defending Putin" bullshit. It's fucking bullshit, and strikes me as more gaslighting, so cut it out please.

Is it possible that you too struggle to distinguish objective criticism for this war, and all war, including Merica's own actions in this and other wars; from the knee jerk reactionary desire to make any criticism taboo and to dismiss it as "just more bad guy rhetoric" ?? Cuz that knee jerk is precisely what the MIC rhetoric wants us conditioned to do. "You never ask questions when God's on your side."

cuz, know what else? I NEVER DID "pretend that soldiers killing an invading force is somehow anything but a survival tactic and self defense." But bear in mind, that invading force has only been invading since February. Azov has had our guns and has allegedly been killing people in Ukraine for years now! I only say allegedly, cuz we really don't have a good through understanding of just what's been going down there. (lemme guess! More Putin propaganda, right?)

And, more sadly yet, we aren't even supposed to be allowed to seek any more thorough understanding? Let's throw Occam's razor out there to keep this as simple as possible. Ukraine good! Russia bad! Merica best! That fits so much better on the bumper stickers.

so, thought experiment: if word came out that Putin was arming a bunch of radical extremist Mexicans, who were using the arms to bring the fight right up along the Mexico/US border, would you shrug that off too?

or would you think personally, or would you think Merica as a whole, might feel...you know...provoked?

[ousdahl]

I guess one big question I have is, weren't we homies with soviet Russia in WW2?

Coincidentally enough, in a bid not to support, but to defeat the nazis.

But we quickly became adversaries with soviet Russia anyway, with the red scare and what not.

What changed?

Was there some specific moment in time? Was it again more hegemony concerns?

Please tell me it was something better than, Merica freaked out at the thought of some other world power that actually wants to provide its people healthcare.

You really should go visit a library. Read up on European history; and don't ask me to give you a book list. You seem to be capable of finding lots of Russian propaganda on your own. Now go find some history from a different point of view than Putin's myopic viewpoint as a former KGB officer. Come back in a week or two and give us a book report.

fuck disappointment.

I cannot even begin to express how much it completely upsets me that you keep doubling down on this bullshit that I'm just parroting Putin propaganda.

cuz it's fucking bullshit!

so please, kindly, as a friend, refrain.

Cuz it makes me wanna start accusing you of shit you and I both know is bullshit too, and I don't wanna stoop to that level.

[ousdahl]

if you only respond to one question I've post here for you, please let it be this one:

if Putin called you personally today and said, "I'll knock it off with this whole Ukrainian invasion bullshit, if you can get your country to knock it off with the whole pouring weapons into Ukraine thing," would you make that deal?

Fuck no!

Jack up the Dow Jones! Sell the rights to the networks! Give guns to the queers!

[KUTradition]

since the collapse of the soviet union (per wikipedia…call me JimWest):

Chechnya
Georgia x2
Moldova
Crimea
Donbas
Ukraine

(admittedly oversimplified)

[TDub]

if everyone else is the problem


something something

[ousdahl]

admittedly oversimplified, indeed.

I'm tempted to attempt some analysis of specific actions and timelines and bigger pictures and such in some attempt to gain greater understanding of all this, but I'll spare you guys for now, cuz we all know root causes = Putin propaganda.

so let's ask the biggest most generalized questions possible:

Countries fight other countries all the time. Countries invade other countries all the time. Borders are redrawn all the time. Always have, too.

So what makes Merica so uniquely equipped to intervene? Who gets to decide which conflicts deserve intervention, and which are nbd?

and, perhaps the biggest question of all: how much throwing of resources at foreign meddling is appropriate when we could otherwise be throwing resources at fixing our own problems domestically?

[ousdahl]

I lol’d

[TDub]

putin rattling the nuclear saber again. Quite the broad stroke to take to rid the world of a potential pocket of nazis yea?

[dolomite]

putin rattling the nuclear saber again. Quite the broad stroke to take to rid the world of a potential pocket of nazis yea?

Draconian

[TDub]

wheres Mike Erhmantraut when ya need him?

[TDub]

so who sabotaged the Nordstrom pipeline? Catastrophic failure in 3 places simultaneously? Natural failure im sure......

[KUTradition]

saboteurs

[jhawks99]

Putin

[ousdahl]

lulz

[ousdahl]

[ousdahl]

in today's edition of "Going Full Qusdahl..."








....Elon Musk?!