serve and protect

[ousdahl]

is ordering someone to get out of their car even a lawful order?

could there be some irony in that maybe the dood was afraid to get out of the car precisely out of fear of police brutality?

say he did get out of his car. What then? Were cops gonna arrest him? What for?

but, what I'll imagine will happen is we'll get some "but he had weed in his system," which will be offered as carte blanche justification for busting in windows and blasting.

[KUTradition]

Glass, whose parents are from the United Kingdom and New Zealand…

there’s no other info given, but it’s entirely possible that he was spooked by the overwhelming and excessive police presence…particularly if he was foreign-born (and a little high)

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

Did any of you watch the entire video? I watched the last 10 or so minutes. I don't understand why they allowed it to get to the point it did. Seems they were never worried for their own safety until he started to hold the knife. What wasn't clear to me was if he slit his own neck before, during, or after he was shot.

[ousdahl]

did he start to hold the knife before, during, or after the cops started busting windows and such? I thought I also saw that at some point a knife was sitting on his lap, and as soon as cops pointed weapons at him, he threw the knife on the floor of the other side of the car.

What's the protocol for an individual who offers to disarm himself? Why shouldn't cops take anyone up on that every single time it's offered? Why wouldn't they? (again, it's either some lack of perceived threat, or some "make my day" fetish, right?

I know civilians are expected to comply regardless, but it's also not a stretch to wonder if the police escalation triggered some sort of self-defense instinct. It's a dumb thought, but then again, if you were scared in your car and cops start busting in your windows, who knows how you would react.

"trained cops are allowed to panic, yet untrained civilians are expected to remain calm with a gun in their face"

Could any sort of castle doctrine apply here? I don't think so, but. If the dude was in his own house, can cops lawfully order him to come out? Or lawfully start blasting through the windows?

[twocoach]

is ordering someone to get out of their car even a lawful order?

could there be some irony in that maybe the dood was afraid to get out of the car precisely out of fear of police brutality?

say he did get out of his car. What then? Were cops gonna arrest him? What for?

but, what I'll imagine will happen is we'll get some "but he had weed in his system," which will be offered as carte blanche justification for busting in windows and blasting.

It just feels like "get out of the car" is a test that some aggressive, arrest-happy cops put on you as a way to have a reason to arrest you. As soon as you do anything other than exactly what they say exactly when they want you to do it, you can be found to be obstructing justice or failing to comply and you are now completely screwed. And even then they can still find something that you did wrong. Such a shame.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

did he start to hold the knife before, during, or after the cops started busting windows and such? I thought I also saw that at some point a knife was sitting on his lap, and as soon as cops pointed weapons at him, he threw the knife on the floor of the other side of the car.

What's the protocol for an individual who offers to disarm himself? Why shouldn't cops take anyone up on that every single time it's offered? Why wouldn't they? (again, it's either some lack of perceived threat, or some "make my day" fetish, right?

I know civilians are expected to comply regardless, but it's also not a stretch to wonder if the police escalation triggered some sort of self-defense instinct. It's a dumb thought, but then again, if you were scared in your car and cops start busting in your windows, who knows how you would react.

"trained cops are allowed to panic, yet untrained civilians are expected to remain calm with a gun in their face"

Could any sort of castle doctrine apply here? I don't think so, but. If the dude was in his own house, can cops lawfully order him to come out? Or lawfully start blasting through the windows?

I don't have good answers to most of your questions.
What I am having trouble understanding is that I have now watched some snippets of the hour long video and it seems at first everyone was cool. He originally was not a threat to anyone. Then clearly the guy was troubled and scared. How and why did it escalate to this? Perhaps because there were so many police that showed up? Easy for me to ask why didn't he get out of the car and why didn't this end peacefully but clearly something we don't know was going on with him. Also, why shoot him to the point of killing him if it SEEMS the only person he was really a threat to was himself?
Sad he felt he could (and should) call the police to help him (and keep him safe) and this was the outcome.

[ousdahl]

I mean, this is...something...





and one more thing from that same thread that's something, even if not directly related to that point above, but for in that broader systemic kinda way:

[KUTradition]

in this case, i don’t think no news is good news

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

Here is the hour long video.....




Shorter video shows a bit more.

[ousdahl]

re: "Perhaps because there were so many police that showed up?," I wonder if there is anything to this.

Are cops prone to some sorta wolfpack mentality, whether consciously realized or not? Does having more cops there paradoxically make the situation less safe? Does some sort of toxic masculinity or authority complex or something make them think they have to establish themselves as some kinda alpha? Whether among the suspect/individual who called for help, or among the other cops?

Where they suddenly think the important thing is not helping the guy who called for help, but asserting their dominance over the situation, no matter how brutal.

[Deleted User 863]

The cops who escalated should be held responsible for their actions.

In my opinion holding a knife inside a car isn't threatening enough behavior to shoot someone.

[ousdahl]

Why the F does a cop park on the train tracks then put someone in the car

[ousdahl]

“Tired and hungry” is quite the precedent

[Wiff]

What happens when officers stop lying to protect their own:

https://www.kmbc.com/article/ex-kansas- ... g/41411404

[KUTradition]

people suck

[ousdahl]

[Overlander]

I remember years ago when KCMO police rented houseboats at Lake of the Ozarks.

It seems that every few months, 15 would go out, 14 would come back.

[ousdahl]

man.

unmarked cars are scary.

[ousdahl]

RIP

NICHOLASVILLE, Ky. (LEX 18) — The Nicholasville Police Department is responding after the family of 22-year-old Desman LaDuke spoke out about his death over the weekend and criticized how the situation was handled.

Kentucky State Police say on Saturday afternoon, Nicholasville police responded to a suicidal subject at a home on Green Street and were "confronted by an armed individual." In a statement released Thursday, Nicholasville police say the department activated its special response team and crisis negotiation team, which consists of two negotiators who are specially trained in working with people with mental health issues.

According to KSP, LaDuke was taken to a local hospital and later died from his injuries. Police did not specify what action was taken that led up to and resulted in LaDuke's death.

In a statement released Tuesday by LaDuke's family, they say much of what has been said is "false" and say the police haven't done anything to correct it.

"Desman was alone in his home and inside his bedroom when he was shot, through the bedroom window, by a police officer positioned outside the home," the family statement reads. "Any suggestion that officers made entry into Desman's home, were threated [sic] inside the home by Desman, and shot Desman from inside the home, are false.

According to LaDuke's family, they said his mother arrived on the scene and begged officers to go into the home to talk to him. They claim the request was denied and said she was warned she would be tackled if she tried to go and talk with her son. The family says after an hour and a half, while LaDuke was inside the home by himself, an officer shot through his bedroom window and the bullet hit him in the chest.

"We are devastated. Confused. Angry. Frustrated. Heartbroken. And struggling," the family statement reads in part. "Since Saturday, nobody from the police department has come to express condolences. Nobody has given us any answers as to why they took Desman's life. Desman needed help. He did not harm anyone. He was alone in his home. Nine rifles being pointed at his doors and windows by officers in tactical gear did not do anything to defuse what was an obvious mental health crisis. A tactical kill shot through a window and into Desman's chest was not the solution."

Nicholasville police don't dispute the claims made by the family in their recent statement.

https://www.lex18.com/news/nicholasvill ... man-laduke

other claims that may affect this case:

- the home apparently had a Ring doorbell cam, the footage of which suggests cops never did try to go in

- unbeknownst to the cops, the neighbors captured much of the situation on video too

[jhawks99]

Nicholasville is the next town to our South. We're there all the time.