Let’s have a war!

[twocoach]

it seems there is really just a difference in priorities here

one side is mainly worried about neo-nazis and the other is more worried about preventing putin from doing putin-things

EVERYONE that has participated in this thread, at least to my recollection, condemns nazis and is, in general, anti-war (maybe not dolomite, but whatever)

the neo-nazi situation isn’t going away anytime soon (if ever), and the US isn’t going to magically stop dealing with countries who have neo-nazi problems

putin (and his agressions), on the other hand, pose a much more immediate, identifiable, and approachable threat

i don’t disagree with any of your sentiments generally, ousie…i just think much of it is wishful thinking. eutopia doesn’t exist, and won’t ever, because humans will ALWAYS fuck shit up. it’d be nice if that wasn’t the case, but that is absolutely the reality of the situation

thought experiment:

what if, rather than mostly just sending weapons to Ukraine, the US was sending teachers instead?

Then they should make sure those teachers speak Russian.

[ousdahl]

well, since it's our own teachers, surely the subject matter will be nothing less than freedom and democracy, right?

as for sending Russian speaking teachers, that might only validate the Russian annexation, which I at least still refuse to do, but apparently not you Putin parrots.

but I'm pretty sure that's all a trick question, it's all moot either way, cuz why in the fuck would Merica send fucking teachers when we could just send more weapons instead?

It's not like teachers do anything for Raytheon stock!

[KUTradition]

missed the point

[ousdahl]

missed the point

well then what is it, CoyDC?

[TDub]

it seems there is really just a difference in priorities here

one side is mainly worried about neo-nazis and the other is more worried about preventing putin from doing putin-things

EVERYONE that has participated in this thread, at least to my recollection, condemns nazis and is, in general, anti-war (maybe not dolomite, but whatever)

the neo-nazi situation isn’t going away anytime soon (if ever), and the US isn’t going to magically stop dealing with countries who have neo-nazi problems

putin (and his agressions), on the other hand, pose a much more immediate, identifiable, and approachable threat

i don’t disagree with any of your sentiments generally, ousie…i just think much of it is wishful thinking. eutopia doesn’t exist, and won’t ever, because humans will ALWAYS fuck shit up. it’d be nice if that wasn’t the case, but that is absolutely the reality of the situation

thought experiment:

what if, rather than mostly just sending weapons to Ukraine, the US was sending teachers instead?

you want to send teachers into the active war zone of one sovereign nation being invaded by another nation?

What would they do there?


Can we just get to basics for one second.

Pop Quiz time: True/False exercise and essay portion. (just like teachers might use!)

1. Is Ukraine an independent, sovereign nation.

2. Is Russia a separate nation from Ukraine?

3. If one nation crosses the border of another nation with tanks and infantry and planes and shoots missiles into the other country. Is that an invasion?

4. Are invasions by foreign nations acceptable to you?

5. Is one nation attacking? if Yes, which one?

6. Is one nation defending? If yes, which one?

7. Is one nation attempting to redraw borders and annex portions of another nations current sovereign lands?

8. Is annexing land acceptable?

9. Should the world allow this action with no reprecussions.

10. Essay Portion: Explain your answer to #9: in your own words.

Assuming you said yes - please clarify what level of annexation and invasion are acceptable and define a set of rules for future invasions.

Assuming you said no: Please explain how this action, which is already well into motion, can be stymied without the use of funding and weaponry. Please note that the answer can include use of economic forces and sanctions but also note that, for this exercise, we will assume that many of those tactics are already deployed heavily.

[TDub]

missed the point

well then what is it, CoyDC?

That Ukraine would be Russia if we sent teachers instead of arms.......but...you knew that.

[ousdahl]

ohh quiz time!

1. parts of it, apparently. Other parts of it, apparently not. All these independent republics and such are the damnedest thing! Forgive me if I can't quite figure out how to stand in solidarity with a nation that doesn't even stand with in solidarity with itself.

2. Yes

3. It depends! If it's Russia then yes. If it's Merica, "we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators"

4. No...unless, maybe...is there WMDs?

5. No. There's plenty to suggest there's more than just ONE nation attacking here. At the very least, this seems like just some he-said-she-said argument. On topics as complex and nuanced as global politics, I'm afraid there's not necessarily one neat tidy "who started it" moment to point the finger at. Stuff like that only exists in the rhetoric.

6. Again, am I supposed to just say there's ONE nation defending in Ukraine, or does Merica and the rest of the NATO posse count too, for their proxy support? And when so much of this started with Ukrainians fighting other Ukrainians, who's to say who's attacking and who's defending? But yea, either way, Russia was the one who most obviously crossed some border for the sake of some invasion, so fuck them. (that might more appropriately apply to question 5)

7. no, again, not just one. This shit is, and always has been, happening all over the world all the time. That's what makes Ukraine so unique! Merica not only decided the this conflict in particular deserves vast sums of our own (mostly just militant) resources, but we also afforded the attention of a 24-hour news cycle media campaign to keep reminding us so.

8. again, that depends on who's doing the annexing!

9. definitely not!

10. I'm for thorough and comprehensive accountability of war criminals, ALL war criminals, I don't care where they're from. let's just line every last one of them all up Nuremburg Trials style or whatever, and make examples out of every last one of them! But bear in mind, perhaps the single biggest consequence of accountability for war crimes on some objective world stage would be, the end of Merica as Mich knows it...

[ousdahl]

missed the point

well then what is it, CoyDC?

That Ukraine would be Russia if we sent teachers instead of arms.......but...you knew that.

again.

trick question!

Merica's so busy spending money on the military that we can barely even afford teachers for our own country, let alone afford teachers for the rest of the world too.

where's the bumper sticker thread?

[TDub]

Your quiz is due.

[ousdahl]

here's a thought I just saw presented:

is there any plan in place for Ukraine to ever reimburse us for all the support we're giving them?

[Cascadia]

here's a thought I just saw presented:

is there any plan in place for Ukraine to ever reimburse us for all the support we're giving them?

No

[KUTradition]

Your quiz is due.

[TDub]

Your quiz is due.

sorry.....i just thought maybe if we broke it down to basics instead of getting so tangled up in the webs of grander conspiracy and/or societal theory we might find we were all closer to being on the same page than it seems.

plus, maybe if its broken down into the things impacting the more immediate situation Ous could explain his side directly addressing those areas and we could come to an understanding and move on.

[Overlander]

Your quiz is due.

sorry.....i just thought maybe if we broke it down to basics instead of getting so tangled up in the webs of grander conspiracy and/or societal theory we might find we were all closer to being on the same page than it seems.

plus, maybe if its broken down into the things impacting the more immediate situation Ous could explain his side directly addressing those areas and we could come to an understanding and move on.

Or, and I am just spitballing here….. you could fuck off

[TDub]

sorry.....i just thought maybe if we broke it down to basics instead of getting so tangled up in the webs of grander conspiracy and/or societal theory we might find we were all closer to being on the same page than it seems.

plus, maybe if its broken down into the things impacting the more immediate situation Ous could explain his side directly addressing those areas and we could come to an understanding and move on.

Or, and I am just spitballing here….. you could fuck off

wow. wtf is your problem dude?

[Overlander]

The only silver lining to your presence here is that it does somewhat limit your ability to poison the minds of your family.

Awesome

[ousdahl]

in today's edition of "it's only war crimes when the bad guys do it"

(apparently)

[ousdahl]

Also

Zelensky nominated for a Nobel peace prize

Lulz

[dolomite]

sorry.....i just thought maybe if we broke it down to basics instead of getting so tangled up in the webs of grander conspiracy and/or societal theory we might find we were all closer to being on the same page than it seems.

plus, maybe if its broken down into the things impacting the more immediate situation Ous could explain his side directly addressing those areas and we could come to an understanding and move on.

Or, and I am just spitballing here….. you could fuck off

wow. wtf is your problem dude?

Juvenile, that’s his problem.

[dolomite]

it seems there is really just a difference in priorities here

one side is mainly worried about neo-nazis and the other is more worried about preventing putin from doing putin-things

EVERYONE that has participated in this thread, at least to my recollection, condemns nazis and is, in general, anti-war (maybe not dolomite, but whatever)

the neo-nazi situation isn’t going away anytime soon (if ever), and the US isn’t going to magically stop dealing with countries who have neo-nazi problems

putin (and his agressions), on the other hand, pose a much more immediate, identifiable, and approachable threat

i don’t disagree with any of your sentiments generally, ousie…i just think much of it is wishful thinking. eutopia doesn’t exist, and won’t ever, because humans will ALWAYS fuck shit up. it’d be nice if that wasn’t the case, but that is absolutely the reality of the situation

thought experiment:

what if, rather than mostly just sending weapons to Ukraine, the US was sending teachers instead?

Then they should make sure those teachers speak Russian.

For the record, I condemn all Nazis, Neo or otherwise.