Quentin Grimes

[Deleted User 75]

I want Quentin to succeed as much as anyone. For his sake, though; to help him get a little confidence, he might be better off coming off the bench against the other team's second unit for a spell...

I hope Self will do that but I worry he wont. Self seems to be overly cautious of a guy's long term psyche by a benching and doesnt take into account how much confidence can be gained against an opponent's 2nd unit.

Agbaji has earned the spot. Give it to him and see if it shocks Grimes into action. He was a complete non factor in every part of the game when he was on the floor.

overly cautious of a guy’s long term psyche?

How many talented freshmen has Self buried on the bench before?

Lots of them.

Self doesn't give a shit about guys long term psyche when it comes to who gets playing time. He plays who gives his team the best chance to win that night. Always has. Always will. Otherwise we'd be playing DMac 20mpg preparing for next year, but that's not how self works....and it works for him/us, so I don't envision that changing much.

[twocoach]

I want Quentin to succeed as much as anyone. For his sake, though; to help him get a little confidence, he might be better off coming off the bench against the other team's second unit for a spell...

I hope Self will do that but I worry he wont. Self seems to be overly cautious of a guy's long term psyche by a benching and doesnt take into account how much confidence can be gained against an opponent's 2nd unit.

Agbaji has earned the spot. Give it to him and see if it shocks Grimes into action. He was a complete non factor in every part of the game when he was on the floor.

overly cautious of a guy’s long term psyche?

How many talented freshmen has Self buried on the bench before?

He should have benched Dok vs OU but was overly concerned it would have long term impact.

He should have played Oubre more at the start of the season but was worried that he would get frustrated by being so lost and it would have long term impacts.

[twocoach]

Personally, I don't think not starting him will result in him playing against primarily 2nd units. It's not like the NBA. Many of the best college players are playing 30+mpg. Many teams have 7-9 guy rotations, not 10+ guy rotations running hockey style shift changes. Playing against the other teams best players is unavoidable.

Sure, it'd result in their being a few of the other teams starters not being on the floor for a few minutes, but it's impossible to know/predict whether those guys will be guarding him.In the NBA there are clear rotations and "2nd units" where guys come in at the same time every game and play the same/similar minutes each games....college not so much. It's more random and harder to project.

And any potential benefit could be off set by him also being in with more of our bench players...so who knows if it helps. Benching a guy so he can go against "worse players" when he's in seems pretty unrealistic. It'd make sense if he was a volume scorer and we were bringing him in when Dedric went to the bench, but that's not the case.

I'm not saying don't bench him for someone who is better or currently playing better....if Ochai is better then start him.....but don't fool yourself into thinking grimes getting benched will magically make him more confident and a better player. That seems silly.

Bringing Grimes off the bench would increase the amount of minutes against bench caliber players. I am aware that it would not eliminate any reps against starters. Every easier rep is an increased opportunity for success.

I believe that he might benefit from the change. I do not believe that it will "magically make him more confident".

[Deleted User 75]

I hope Self will do that but I worry he wont. Self seems to be overly cautious of a guy's long term psyche by a benching and doesnt take into account how much confidence can be gained against an opponent's 2nd unit.

Agbaji has earned the spot. Give it to him and see if it shocks Grimes into action. He was a complete non factor in every part of the game when he was on the floor.

overly cautious of a guy’s long term psyche?

How many talented freshmen has Self buried on the bench before?

He should have benched Dok vs OU but was overly concerned it would have long term impact.

No he wasn't. He was being stubborn and didn't want Kruger to know he was dictating Self's lineup.

Leaving him in did more to fuck up his psyche than taking him out ever could have done.

(That's my personal opinion and interpretation of what happened. Only Self knows the real reasons....but not sure how letting a horrible free throw shooter repeatededly get fouled and miss free throws eventually resulting in us losing the game protected his psyche in any way.)

[twocoach]

"I've always been a big believer that you send a bad message to somebody when you don't have confidence in him. Especially when you know he's going to have to play every big minute late in the season against good competition." -Bill Self after the loss to Oklahoma.

It is an underlying belief that Self has that definitely played a part in his decision.

You can spam me for 2 more pages about it but it doesnt matter. I believe it impacts his decision making and I hope he learns from them when considering how to handle this situation.

[NDballer13]

I was wondering how Ochai was going to react after going from 6th man to DNP-CD's in the snap of a finger after one bad stretch. His 5 points plus tough rebound in the first 30 seconds on the floor last night proved nothing in his confidence has changed. That's how Grimes needs to play. Go back to the OU game when he was diving on the floor and hustling all over the place.

[pdub]

I didn't mind what he was trying to do with Dok. It was clear he was our best option and needed to try and figure out that part of the game.

In this case, it's not clear anymore if Grimes is our best option because of this awesome kid out of Kansas City.

[PhDhawk]

I didn't mind what he was trying to do with Dok. It was clear he was our best option and needed to try and figure out that part of the game.

In this case, it's not clear anymore if Grimes is our best option because of this awesome kid out of Kansas City.

The fact that we've all got boners from a freshman who had 8 pts and 5 boards is pretty telling about whether Grimes is our best option.

[jfish26]

Grimes would do well to forget about scoring and just focus on energy plays and defense. He's so mindfucked right now by something, he just needs to start from scratch.

[Deleted User 75]

I'm starting to lean away from the "it's mental" excuse at this point. He's just not a very good college basketball player yet. Can't shoot. Isn't great at defending. Not sure either of those can be primarily attributed to metal issues (in his specific instance). We knew he wasn't a good shooter coming in.

[jfish26]

I don't know if I'd say the problem is mental. I do think the only solution that makes sense to me is mental. Control the things you can control, which start with energy and effort.

[pdub]

He's better than he's showing, you can see the pieces there.
But the chances he gets it fixed enough this year to be more of a factor than Ochai continue to lessen.

[CrimsonNBlue]

I'd hate to give up on him but the games where he's a non-factor just keep adding up.

[Deleted User 62]

Grimes would do well to forget about scoring and just focus on energy plays and defense.

Worked well for Garrett.

[twocoach]

Grimes would do well to forget about scoring and just focus on energy plays and defense.

Worked well for Garrett.

Yep. Grimes and Garrett basically need to swap roles. We started the season with Grimes needing to be the guy who drove relentlessly on offense to make up for his poor (comparatively) outside shooting and Garrett needing to be the defensive energy and hustle guy off the bench.

Now since Garrett has developed into the driver, we need Grimes to be the off the bench hustle guy.

[Mjl]

Bill has not started some top ten recruits before. But has he ever started them and then relegated them to the bench, without it being spurred by an injury (Selby)?

[MICHHAWK]

Right now we could throw out there a stuffed shirt and get the same results. I would almost bet your life Grimes is coming off the bench this Saturday.

Or, a big time game against a big time opponent under the brightest of the bright lights might be just what he needs to get himself jump started. Maybe Saturdays game will be just what the doctor ordered for Grimes.

[NDballer13]

Bill has not started some top ten recruits before. But has he ever started them and then relegated them to the bench, without it being spurred by an injury (Selby)?

Didn't Cliff start a few games early, then came off the bench, then back to starter before being suspended?

[Soklous]

I'd hate to give up on him but the games where he's a non-factor just keep adding up.

Coach Self just dismissed the notion on Hawk Talk. Says Grimes will continue in starting position.

[Mjl]

I would guess he'll keep starting, and given the effort on D and poise on O, will either get significant minutes or few minutes.