Let’s have a war!

[Cascadia]

I don’t know the answer to how far is too far because it hasn’t happened yet. They could blow up Palin’s house. I’d also be fine with that.

But, it’s probably worth noting that I’m not 100% anti war. It’s a messy part of our species but it’s a necessary part of our existence at our current level of evolution.

[TDub]

thanks, TDub. That's big of you to do so, and especially to acknowledge it's possible it was not accurate. No harm in that! The bigger harm would be doubling down.

If I'm a civilian, and I'm suddenly getting bombed, who cares whether I'm in a building or on a bridge? Both of those are places where it's appropriate for a civilian to be, not the kinds of places you can really blame a civilian for being there. And besides, either way, I'm dead.

one has been used primarily as a military supply channel since Feb. 24th and is a major access point for the Russian military to access annexed lands to launch attacks......Strategic

One is primarily a place where civilians and families live and has no real strategic value other than to create shock and chaos.

One was presumably done to counter an invasion and stop additional loss of life.

One was presumably done to explicitly kill civilians and create fear.


they are not the same now matter how hard one tries.

[TDub]

I would also offer this....in response to the bridge explosion Putin apparently bombed an apartment complex and a playground today. They are not the same.

https://pictures.reuters.com/CS.aspx?VP ... FQEJXVDN1T

https://www.thedailybeast.com/wounded-p ... le-strikes

[ousdahl]

While I can understand why bombing a bridge may be more strategically advantageous than bombing a residential building, I still struggle to justify loss of civilian lives. I don't think you can say those people should have known better than to be on a bridge.

and besides, haven't Ukrainian soldiers been criticized for setting up bases in and launching attacks from residential areas, thus violating international humanitarian law?

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/ ... civilians/

and since this needs bed be said - NOT THAT IT JUSTIFIES RUSSIA'S ATTACKS

[KUTradition]

I would also offer this....in response to the bridge explosion Putin apparently bombed an apartment complex and a playground today. They are not the same.

https://pictures.reuters.com/CS.aspx?VP ... FQEJXVDN1T

https://www.thedailybeast.com/wounded-p ... le-strikes

and apparently an exclusively pedestrian bridge in Kyiv as well

[ousdahl]

[KUTradition]

moscow man jailed for listening to Ukrainian music in his car

[Mjl]

I've spent most of today hanging out with a Russian and a Ukrainian. Interesting perspectives. The Russian was talking about how she can't even have conversations with most people she knows that still live in Russia about this war, or about America. They're being fed a lot of very inaccurate propaganda about America and Americans and are eating it up. She, who lives in America, is unable to convince these people who have never been to America what Americans are so like.

The Ukrainian is basically just devastated by the whole thing.

[ousdahl]

howsabout we play another round of "Nazis in Ukraine that keep showing up in western media despite western media being so determined to downplay nazis in Ukraine."

in today's edition, let's consider this notorious Russophile and Putin-parroting bad guy Kremlin spam bot:

The Commander-in-Chief of the Ukrainian military!



now, this one's unique for several reasons:

- it's not just some rank-and-file Ukrainian Proud Boy soldier, it's the commander in chief
- it was published not from the AP or Reuters or PBS or NYT or one of those other otherwise-respected western media sources, it came directly from an official Ukrainian twitter account
- it actually got a rebuttal this time! Unlike all the other evidence of nazis in Ukraine that either gets hastily dismissed as fake news, or just ignored altogether; this one merits a response from Newsweek, at least...

https://www.newsweek.com/kim-dotcom-ukr ... to-1750457

now, I can buy the "did not feature a swastika, but rather a swirly motif" theory as quickly as you guys will. Newsweek cites other tweeters who blurred the image for context, mentions the guy openly wears the bracelet all the time regardless, and that it's just an "ancient symbol" that was hijacked by the nazis. Oh, ok.

What Newsweek DOESN'T do, is provide any context for why the bracelet covered in innocuous ancient symbols IS worn so frequently by this dood, or what wearing that or any other of the ancient symbols might signify. It doesn't mention whether wearing jewelry is common for soldiers, or whether soldiers can display symbols while in uniform that go beyond standard dress. It doesn't mention much toward the context of WW2 or German nazis, despite the language in the commander-in-chief's caption:

A fierce struggle continues on our soil, the scale of which the world has not seen since the WW2. We have no right to hand over this war to our children. The enemy must be destroyed here and now. And we can do that.

Maybe they're not obligated to, though.

But, I guess the question I'm leading up to is, when we're supposed to believe the whole "nazis in Ukraine" thing is entirely just Russian propaganda, don't you at least kinda wish Ukrainian officials (and NATO pals by proxy) would take great care to eliminate even the suggestion of nazis in Ukraine? Don't you think at some point somebody would say something like, "hey let's make sure our high-ranking commanders aren't wearing bracelets covered in ancient motifs or anything else that might create any confusion here?"

and, finally, I'm tempted to ask whether Merica should take better care in understanding precisely what sorts of characters we're arming in Ukraine before arming them, but I know you guys see that question as nothing more than antagonistic, and I'm trying to avoid that role any more.

[TDub]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/15/europe/r ... index.html

jfc. This is one shining example of why we should be helping Ukraine. Fucking gross and intolerable.

you gonna try and both sides this one q?

[ousdahl]

These stories are disgusting.

That’s why I wanna end this war, rather than escalate and perpetuate, and do what we can to hold all war criminals accountable.

Yes, let’s help Ukraine. But, is it possible to help them in more diplomatic and humanitarian capacities, rather than mostly just militant?

[ousdahl]

But, Ukraine is already starting to feel like yesterday’s news.

cuuuuz we’ve got more new wars to escalate!

#StandWithHaiti

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/10/15/poli ... index.html

[TDub]

These stories are disgusting.

That’s why I wanna end this war, rather than escalate and perpetuate, and do what we can to hold all war criminals accountable.

Yes, let’s help Ukraine. But, is it possible to help them in more diplomatic and humanitarian capacities, rather than mostly just militant?

when bombs are dropping and tanks are rolling across the border....what kind of aid would you prefer to stop the war? Toilet paper and books?

Military aid is what ends the war....humanitarian aid comes after the killing is done.

[KUTradition]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna52926

vlad declares martial law in illegally annexed regions

[twocoach]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna52926

vlad declares martial law in illegally annexed regions

But I thought they wanted to be part of Russia?

[twocoach]

These stories are disgusting.

That’s why I wanna end this war, rather than escalate and perpetuate, and do what we can to hold all war criminals accountable.

Yes, let’s help Ukraine. But, is it possible to help them in more diplomatic and humanitarian capacities, rather than mostly just militant?

I guess we could stop sending them weapons and then come in and diplomatically pick up their bodies out of the streets in a humanitarian manner after Russia gets done with raping, torturing and killing them.

[twocoach]

howsabout we play another round of "Nazis in Ukraine that keep showing up in western media despite western media being so determined to downplay nazis in Ukraine."

in today's edition, let's consider this notorious Russophile and Putin-parroting bad guy Kremlin spam bot:

The Commander-in-Chief of the Ukrainian military!



now, this one's unique for several reasons:

- it's not just some rank-and-file Ukrainian Proud Boy soldier, it's the commander in chief
- it was published not from the AP or Reuters or PBS or NYT or one of those other otherwise-respected western media sources, it came directly from an official Ukrainian twitter account
- it actually got a rebuttal this time! Unlike all the other evidence of nazis in Ukraine that either gets hastily dismissed as fake news, or just ignored altogether; this one merits a response from Newsweek, at least...

https://www.newsweek.com/kim-dotcom-ukr ... to-1750457

now, I can buy the "did not feature a swastika, but rather a swirly motif" theory as quickly as you guys will. Newsweek cites other tweeters who blurred the image for context, mentions the guy openly wears the bracelet all the time regardless, and that it's just an "ancient symbol" that was hijacked by the nazis. Oh, ok.

What Newsweek DOESN'T do, is provide any context for why the bracelet covered in innocuous ancient symbols IS worn so frequently by this dood, or what wearing that or any other of the ancient symbols might signify. It doesn't mention whether wearing jewelry is common for soldiers, or whether soldiers can display symbols while in uniform that go beyond standard dress. It doesn't mention much toward the context of WW2 or German nazis, despite the language in the commander-in-chief's caption:

A fierce struggle continues on our soil, the scale of which the world has not seen since the WW2. We have no right to hand over this war to our children. The enemy must be destroyed here and now. And we can do that.

Maybe they're not obligated to, though.

But, I guess the question I'm leading up to is, when we're supposed to believe the whole "nazis in Ukraine" thing is entirely just Russian propaganda, don't you at least kinda wish Ukrainian officials (and NATO pals by proxy) would take great care to eliminate even the suggestion of nazis in Ukraine? Don't you think at some point somebody would say something like, "hey let's make sure our high-ranking commanders aren't wearing bracelets covered in ancient motifs or anything else that might create any confusion here?"

and, finally, I'm tempted to ask whether Merica should take better care in understanding precisely what sorts of characters we're arming in Ukraine before arming them, but I know you guys see that question as nothing more than antagonistic, and I'm trying to avoid that role any more.

I must have missed your article about how when we arm our own military and police officers that we are "arming Nazis".


https://rollcall.com/2021/02/16/pentago ... -military/

[KUTradition]

Eyewitness testimony suggests that the shooting of 11 Russian soldiers near Belgorod by a fellow recruit on 15 October 2022 occurred after an officer’s abusive comments toward ethnic minority recruits.

[KUTradition]

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-polit ... secession/

ha! who knew the russians were also trying to help texans secede?

[zsn]

I think literally everyone is in favor of Texas seceding! For starters it would lock down the Republicans as a permanently minority party. Win-win situation!