Every server in America working a shitty Tuesday lunch shift where they make crappier tips than what the paid sick leave pays would call out "sick" if that happened. Get serious.
No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
I worked many early 20s years as a host, server and bartender so I get it. My wife coaches ice skating. If she is sick and cannot go in, she does not get paid and there isn't anyone else that can just cover her shift like if you call out sick at a restaurant.jhawks99 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:24 amYes, in a restaurant. No work = no pay. Miss too much and they replace you. At the opening of one restaurant I worked for, a server asked about benefits. The owner said, "Your pay is your effin benefit".
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
dude, you get serious. If workers are even afforded paid sick leave, it's usually not more than a few days a year tops, so it's not like servers would be able to call out every Tuesday.
Also, I don't think it was your intent, but you may have just made a pretty good argument to raise the minimum wage for tipped workers
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
“Sick leave being a perk, like health insurance being a benefit, just underscores the fact that under capitalism you are a worker first and a human being second”
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
What I made was a case for people to not work jobs such as being a server beyond the time in your life where you are 20 something, have minimal bills and have no one to worry about but yourself. Jobs like that aren't of a pay scale where you can support a family. Not every job in the world should pay well enough that you can make a career of it and support a family; that's just dumb.ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:32 amdude, you get serious. If workers are even afforded paid sick leave, it's usually not more than a few days a year tops, so it's not like servers would be able to call out every Tuesday.
Also, I don't think it was your intent, but you may have just made a pretty good argument to raise the minimum wage for tipped workers
But I would support the hourly rate being raised for tipped employees. No one should get an hourly rate below minimum wage. It should be the "minimum" as the name states.
Last edited by twocoach on Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
Do you have any concept of the number of times employees at the various bars and restaurants I have worked at over the years just simply failed to show up for their scheduled shifts? It is a routine issue for employers in jobs involving hourly workers. Treating the other party like they are nothing more than a source of work or money is a two way street.
So let's devise a "fair" system that is fair to both parties. Let's say that hourly employees can have paid sick leave if they agree to pay their employer for shifts where they do not provide more than xx amount of notification prior to not showing up and if they quit without giving 2 weeks notice then they have to pay the employer for what they would have been paid for those 2 weeks.
Good?
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
most of construction labor is the same.
Just Ledoux it
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
ummm bro but employees are ALREADY expected to have to give at least 2 weeks notice before they quit, regardless of whether they have sick leave!
but, whoa...maybe we're getting somewhere.
cuz, yes, exactly, let's devise a "fair" system that is fair to both parties!
if an employee should have to give 2 weeks notice to quit, then by that logic, and in the spirit of devising as "fair" a system as possible, should employers also have to give 2 weeks notice before they fire someone?
but, whoa...maybe we're getting somewhere.
cuz, yes, exactly, let's devise a "fair" system that is fair to both parties!
if an employee should have to give 2 weeks notice to quit, then by that logic, and in the spirit of devising as "fair" a system as possible, should employers also have to give 2 weeks notice before they fire someone?
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
I will say this....
Biden supports the protests in China
Condemns the banning of protests by Putin in Russia.
And then makes railroad strikes illegal.
nope, that doesn't track.
Biden supports the protests in China
Condemns the banning of protests by Putin in Russia.
And then makes railroad strikes illegal.
nope, that doesn't track.
Just Ledoux it
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
Id like to know how a strike is illegal. What are you arrested for and charged with if you decide not to go to work?
Just Ledoux it
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
This whole notion that entry level positions need to be sustainable as careers is baffling to me.
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
and yea, employees at various bars and restaurants (or any other job) may fail to show up to a scheduled shift, sure. Heaven forbid, some human moment get in the way of their obligations to their capitalist overlords. Don't they realize they're a worker first?
Like for real, most bars and restaurants I've worked at had a strict policy of immediate termination for no-call no-shows, for better or for worse, for both the worker and the employer. And, spoiler alert, most food and beverage workers aren't financially secure enough to be able to be blowing off shifts all the time just cuz, like you make it sound. They want to show up, they NEED to show up, or else they might literally freeze or starve to death.
Often, they even work sick! Sometimes, it's their own choice to power through, cuz they weigh the risks and misery of working sick against the risks and misery of financial ruin. Not to mention, do you have any idea how often a manager will say "I don't care if you feel sick, either show up for your shift today, or yer fired"
or how about when managers call like "I know tomorrow was supposed to be your day off and you already had plans, but I still expect you to cancel those plans and work a double, or else yer fired, I don't care if it's my own fault for not adequately staffing this joint in the first place"
for the sake of this hypo, can we get any self-awareness out of the employer? If you really wanna worry less about workers not showing up, why not just try to be a place people actually want to work in the first place?
cuuuuuz if it's the kind of place at which an employee may just not show up for a shift, I can pretty much guarantee you that's a shitty place to work. If it's the kind of place that's constantly threatening termination for everything from being sick to not working on your day off, how much obligation should a worker have in return?
and bear in mind, this is workers in an industry who might literally be making $2.13 an hour. How much should you really expect? What's preventing employers from going all FrEe MaRkEt about it and offering better wages to attract better workers?
What sort of "fair" system do you suggest to account for these sort of situations?
Like for real, most bars and restaurants I've worked at had a strict policy of immediate termination for no-call no-shows, for better or for worse, for both the worker and the employer. And, spoiler alert, most food and beverage workers aren't financially secure enough to be able to be blowing off shifts all the time just cuz, like you make it sound. They want to show up, they NEED to show up, or else they might literally freeze or starve to death.
Often, they even work sick! Sometimes, it's their own choice to power through, cuz they weigh the risks and misery of working sick against the risks and misery of financial ruin. Not to mention, do you have any idea how often a manager will say "I don't care if you feel sick, either show up for your shift today, or yer fired"
or how about when managers call like "I know tomorrow was supposed to be your day off and you already had plans, but I still expect you to cancel those plans and work a double, or else yer fired, I don't care if it's my own fault for not adequately staffing this joint in the first place"
for the sake of this hypo, can we get any self-awareness out of the employer? If you really wanna worry less about workers not showing up, why not just try to be a place people actually want to work in the first place?
cuuuuuz if it's the kind of place at which an employee may just not show up for a shift, I can pretty much guarantee you that's a shitty place to work. If it's the kind of place that's constantly threatening termination for everything from being sick to not working on your day off, how much obligation should a worker have in return?
and bear in mind, this is workers in an industry who might literally be making $2.13 an hour. How much should you really expect? What's preventing employers from going all FrEe MaRkEt about it and offering better wages to attract better workers?
What sort of "fair" system do you suggest to account for these sort of situations?
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
Employers will respond to the call for a requirement for sick leave when they can't get enough workers to work without it. We as citizens have a limited amount of power to fight for what we want by being choosey about who we decide to work for.
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
bro you're the one who wants to create a fair system.
Toward that end, I'd suggest somehow valuing worker positions less by how much an employer is willing to pay them, and more by how much value the position's labor generates.
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
I work sick all the time. I work outside of my regular office hours all the time.ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:34 pm and yea, employees at various bars and restaurants (or any other job) may fail to show up to a scheduled shift, sure. Heaven forbid, some human moment get in the way of their obligations to their capitalist overlords. Don't they realize they're a worker first?
Like for real, most bars and restaurants I've worked at had a strict policy of immediate termination for no-call no-shows, for better or for worse, for both the worker and the employer. And, spoiler alert, most food and beverage workers aren't financially secure enough to be able to be blowing off shifts all the time just cuz, like you make it sound. They want to show up, they NEED to show up, or else they might literally freeze or starve to death.
Often, they even work sick! Sometimes, it's their own choice to power through, cuz they weigh the risks and misery of working sick against the risks and misery of financial ruin. Not to mention, do you have any idea how often a manager will say "I don't care if you feel sick, either show up for your shift today, or yer fired"
or how about when managers call like "I know tomorrow was supposed to be your day off and you already had plans, but I still expect you to cancel those plans and work a double, or else yer fired, I don't care if it's my own fault for not adequately staffing this joint in the first place"
for the sake of this hypo, can we get any self-awareness out of the employer? If you really wanna worry less about workers not showing up, why not just try to be a place people actually want to work in the first place?
cuuuuuz if it's the kind of place at which an employee may just not show up for a shift, I can pretty much guarantee you that's a shitty place to work. If it's the kind of place that's constantly threatening termination for everything from being sick to not working on your day off, how much obligation should a worker have in return?
and bear in mind, this is workers in an industry who might literally be making $2.13 an hour. How much should you really expect? What's preventing employers from going all FrEe MaRkEt about it and offering better wages to attract better workers?
What sort of "fair" system do you suggest to account for these sort of situations?
"If you really wanna worry less about workers not showing up, why not just try to be a place people actually want to work in the first place"
You are just so unaware of the bigger world out there. Hopefully your life experiences broaden a bit and you get to see more of what is going on around you. I can't even begin to list the amount of ridiculous reasons that have been listed as reasons for no-shows at various employers I have worked for. Rarely do people just show up because "I don't like my work atmosphere". It is usually because they had either an unexpected event such as a sick kid/relative etc.. or because they got an offer to do something fun that they really wanted to do.
We laugh about the spike in no-call no-shows in the evening shift of our Customer Care department whenever there is a big concert or event that comes to town. Every. Single. One. We have to fire a dozen or so Call Center reps every spring with the "CWS flu" because they skip to go to College World Series games.
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
I agree with you on this. At the same time, he can't let the rail system grind to a halt. This is akin to Ronny Ray-Gun firing all of the air traffic controllers and replacing them. I didn't like that either, but stuff's gotta move.
Defense. Rebounds.
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
Lots of employees pick up and leave their jobs for the sole reason of getting paid more somewhere else so again, why should that go only one way?
What also needs to be factored in is how easy it is to replace those employees. You can train a server at an average restaurant in a week or two and they can provide the same value as the person they are replacing. People don't like to think of themselves as replaceable but in most entry level positions, you really are.
They are called entry level positions for a reason. They are a temporary entry way into the labor market, not a career.
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
I mean, we're just arguing anectdoes, I suppose.
Either way, you're the one who wants to devise a system that is fair to both parties.
I think the burden, then, should be on you to come up with something.
Cuz so far you've called for a fair system then went on to shit all over workers and play the victim card for that poor exploited capitalist class. They got it so rough!
Either way, you're the one who wants to devise a system that is fair to both parties.
I think the burden, then, should be on you to come up with something.
Cuz so far you've called for a fair system then went on to shit all over workers and play the victim card for that poor exploited capitalist class. They got it so rough!
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
Agreed. If you are going to choose to work in an industry that is deemed to be a critical part of the infrastructure of our economy then you agree to take on some risk of a situation exactly like this. The good part of it is that they were able to secure a 24% pay increase, which is insane to employees who didn't get raises enough to keep up with inflation back when inflation wasn't a problem.