Vick

[CrimsonNBlue]

Are we holding him to the standard that he should be a 20pt+ a night scorer?

Seems a little unrealistic to me.

He's never been consistent like that.

I wouldn't say we are holding him to a standard of 20pt+ guy, but I think we all know that for this team to be successful he needs to be closer to that guy than not. I don't think saying he can't go 20-25 minutes stretches without scoring is an unrealistic standard to hold your 2nd option to. He took one shot in the first 19 minutes of the second half on Saturday. And that shot was a contested one at the top of the key 12 seconds into the half.

I have never been less surprised when a guy averaging 15 scores 5 as I am with Vick.

Right, the most infuriating thing about Vick on the court is the consistent inconsistency.

And, I don't see the fact that UK focusing on locking him down and Vick being quiet because of it as any sort of good thing.

[pdub]

No, it's not, but I don't think benching him because of that is the answer.

[ousdahl]

how much of Vick being quiet is on Vick, and how much of it is on Self?

coach didn't start running plays for the dude until literally the last minute of the game.

[Deleted User 75]

Just because we "need" him to be close to a 20pt+ guy doesn't mean he's capable of doing that (consistently). Starting. Coming off the bench. Or whatever. He's just not as good as the guys who have been our 2nd scoring options over the years.

What we "need" is other guys to continue to improve, so that Vick isn't forced to be something he's not. Which is consistent. Because he's never been consistent. Other than consistently being in Selfs doghouse.

If grimes keeps plugging away and gets a little more consistent himself, if Dotson keeps improving and becoming more aggressive, if Garrett keeps driving to the hoop and not settling for outside jumpers...then that will mask some of Vicks deficiencies with consistency. Adding SDS will also help, because I think he can average 10pts per game right out of the gate.

[pdub]

You have Garrett and Grimes each averaging 8 points a game.
And Dotson at 10 in conference but shooting 40% from the field.
Vick is probably best served as a top notch 3rd option but he has to be our no. 2 at this point.

And because Dok got hurt and Grimes is underwhelming, the team is struggling, and would be struggling even harder ( out of the top 25 possibly ) without a guy who a lot of people were saying 'good riddance' to when he initially opted out.

And ous is right. While Vick probably could have asked for the ball more, he was being put in the spots he normally was, and Kentucky was negating it. Self could have run more to get him involved.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Yeah, I mean, I never stick up for the guy, but can you really blame him for being who he is?

Vick's play is not necessarily why this season has been so disappointing thus far. It's the fact that we need A- to A+ Vick in every game. And that has mostly to do with recruiting misses, injuries, and God Save the Rules.

[pdub]

If Garrett or Grimes would be more consistent on the offensive end, we might not need A- Vick every game.

Garrett went 1 for 9 v Kentucky.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Vick's highs are higher than you would have expected. His lows are about what you would have expected. His (in)consistency is also as expected.

The guy it all falls on: Q. Highs are lower than expected. Lows are lower than expected. He's been consistently forgettable, though.

[ousdahl]

Yeah, I mean, I never stick up for the guy, but can you really blame him for being who he is?

Vick's play is not necessarily why this season has been so disappointing thus far. It's the fact that we need A- to A+ Vick in every game. And that has mostly to do with recruiting misses, injuries, and God Save the Rules.

part of me DOES wanna blame him for being who he is.

why can't he realize how much natural talent he's got, and put in the hard work and discipline to make the most of it?

and I dunno if it is really too much to ask a senior to bring his A game, at least more often than not. How many other seniors have done just that?

[Deleted User 75]

and I dunno if it is really too much to ask a senior to bring his A game, at least more often than not. How many other seniors have done just that?

How many other seniors had to beg to be allowed to return following their junior year with an open scholarship available?

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I think Vick is having an above average season. He's far surpassed my expectations for what he would be (granted a lot of that is due to how well he shot it at the start of the year, but we knew that couldn't possibly continue at such a scorching rate).

[ousdahl]

I know he's an anomaly in the "beg to return" sense.

but, I dunno, I guess I hoped he was only accepted back on certain conditions, one of which being he was gonna lock himself in the gym and work his ass off to become a more consistent scorer and better leader.

I guess I'll say Vick is having an average season, in the sense it's gone about how I expected it to: moments of brilliance, moments to forget, and either way spent time in the doghouse again.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Yeah, I mean, I never stick up for the guy, but can you really blame him for being who he is?

Vick's play is not necessarily why this season has been so disappointing thus far. It's the fact that we need A- to A+ Vick in every game. And that has mostly to do with recruiting misses, injuries, and God Save the Rules.

part of me DOES wanna blame him for being who he is.

why can't he realize how much natural talent he's got, and put in the hard work and discipline to make the most of it?

and I dunno if it is really too much to ask a senior to bring his A game, at least more often than not. How many other seniors have done just that?

I guess my point is that we knew what we were getting when he was allowed back on the team. That's a big reason why I wasn't thrilled when he was allowed back and I won't shed a hint of a tear when his time is over here.

[pdub]

And that said, even with a lot of KU fans not thrilled he's back, he's a key piece to the team.
Without him we'd be screaming Fire Self.

[ousdahl]

that's pretty nuts that our roster was supposed to be ready to compete without Vick.

Garrett starts right out the gate, Agbaji never redshirts, and...oh hey, here's a question:

what would Sam Cunliffe have contributed to this team?

[CrimsonNBlue]

that's pretty nuts that our roster was supposed to be ready to compete without Vick.

Garrett starts right out the gate, Agbaji never redshirts, and...oh hey, here's a question:

what would Sam Cunliffe have contributed to this team?

It's collateral damage from the trial. That he-said she-said evidence affected the following:

- Langford picking IU over KU
- Vick therefore allowed back on
- Agbaji redshirts
- De Sousa self-imposed ban
- Lightfoot does NOT redshirt

[PhDhawk]

I wonder if the Dok injury would have had us strip Lightfoot's shirt even with a healthy De Sousa?

[CrimsonNBlue]

I wonder if the Dok injury would have had us strip Lightfoot's shirt even with a healthy De Sousa?

After watching the UK game, I'm not so sure we would have pulled it. I think Bill was hesitant to pull Agbaji's but Agbaji made us better. Mitch really doesn't.

[jfish26]

Bill's coaching grade for the 2018-19 season is still Incomplete. His GM grade seems to be settling into the C-/D+ level.

[ousdahl]

yeah, Mitch is coming off back to back DNP- CD's right?

Don't think Self woulda bothered pulling a shirt on that kinda guy, especially considering the hypothetical that he woulda had the guy he wanted in the first place.

[ousdahl]

Bill's coaching grade for the 2018-19 season is still Incomplete. His GM grade seems to be settling into the C-/D+ level.

remember the end of last season though when we were all heaping praise on Self for this year's roster?

Hindsight is 20/20...