Conspiracies

[TDub]

I lied...I have one more style of shoe that doesn't have laces. I have a native buddy that made me a pair of actual moccasins. They're pretty great for some things.

[twocoach]

We have basketball threads for basketball and covid threads for covid, too but here we are.

[zsn]

It’s about conspiracy involving The Man and Big Lace.

[japhy]

But it was worth it.

https://www.theonion.com/man-forced-to- ... sOJs7X-j3Y

[Overlander]

But it was worth it.

https://www.theonion.com/man-forced-to- ... sOJs7X-j3Y

Golden

[StayCurious]

I didn't have to venture anywhere to know the vaccines would fail and that it was a scam. I knew the same thing of the Iraq war in 2003. It was just common sense.

[DCHawk1]

One can believe all of the following simultaneously:

1. COVID vaccines saved innumerable lives
2. "Public health" was patently dishonest about what the vaccines would and wouldn't do, creating the fertile soil in which conspiracy theories have understandably grown.
3. The mRNA vaccines probably do have more significant side effects than most vaccines.
4. Adequate testing and reporting on those side effects were NOT done (in large part because of the race to inoculate the global public), further adding to the conspiracy-mongering.
5. The attitude that raising questions or varying at all from the currently accepted view is, by definition, "misinformation" is a scientistic attack on actual science.
6. COVID is endemic, and thus, like influenza, will require perpetual, ongoing, malleable treatments.
7. Politics is dum.

[pdub]

1 yes
2 yes
3 not really. Not long term. Probably your worst points of the seven.
4 timing in a pandemic might have had something to do with this. Your second worst point. But still far better than your previous point. Even though you mention it being a large part. Because if mentioning in large part then why is this much of a point? It had to be fast to save lives.
5 true but like there’s an extent to this to where it’s more than just challenging but just making shit up like two posters on here
6 yes
7 yes

All in all five good points, one somewhat useless point but still slightly ok and one bad point.

[Deleted User 863]

One can believe all of the following simultaneously:

1. COVID vaccines saved innumerable lives
2. "Public health" was patently dishonest about what the vaccines would and wouldn't do, creating the fertile soil in which conspiracy theories have understandably grown.
3. The mRNA vaccines probably do have more significant side effects than most vaccines.
4. Adequate testing and reporting on those side effects were NOT done (in large part because of the race to inoculate the global public), further adding to the conspiracy-mongering.
5. The attitude that raising questions or varying at all from the currently accepted view is, by definition, "misinformation" is a scientistic attack on actual science.
6. COVID is endemic, and thus, like influenza, will require perpetual, ongoing, malleable treatments.
7. Politics is dum.

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. I don't know enough to say one way or the other.
4. Yes.
5. Yes.
6. Yes.
7. Yes.

[Mjl]

Pdub is most right here imo, though I would add that saying adequate testing was not done is outright inaccurate. It went through all the usual phases - the production during testing was the thing that was fast-tracked. And the messaging of those test results was indeed awful.

[StayCurious]

Possible, but improbable.

There were those of us who saw Y2K as fear porn. We also knew there were no WMDs before most people did. We are the same people who spotted the vaccine scam a mile away.

[KUTradition]

wow, you are so special

i mean, how do you even live with yourself being so special?

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

Possible, but improbable.

There were those of us who saw Y2K as fear porn. We also knew there were no WMDs before most people did. We are the same people who spotted the vaccine scam a mile away.

95% of the things you claim you knew - you probably didn't have a fricking clue about.
You may have assumed things, and you may have been right, but you really didn't know anything you claim you knew to be true for a fact. Did you?

[zsn]

I doubt that “public health” was dishonest about anything. However, I agree that they did create a fertile ground for conspiracy theorists. “Dishonesty” requires intent. I don’t think they deliberately misrepresented anything. It’s the rapid evolution of our understanding overlaid on a rapidly evolving virus which made their job difficult.

Otherwise I agree with everything pdub said.

[pdub]

I think public health may have stated things they weren’t sure were true as likely truths in some ways to over protect the general population.

Some of those likely truths became less likely.

[randylahey]

One can believe all of the following simultaneously:

1. COVID vaccines saved innumerable lives
2. "Public health" was patently dishonest about what the vaccines would and wouldn't do, creating the fertile soil in which conspiracy theories have understandably grown.
3. The mRNA vaccines probably do have more significant side effects than most vaccines.
4. Adequate testing and reporting on those side effects were NOT done (in large part because of the race to inoculate the global public), further adding to the conspiracy-mongering.
5. The attitude that raising questions or varying at all from the currently accepted view is, by definition, "misinformation" is a scientistic attack on actual science.
6. COVID is endemic, and thus, like influenza, will require perpetual, ongoing, malleable treatments.
7. Politics is dum.

This is the best, most unbiased post that ive seen on here on long time

[DCHawk1]

I doubt that “public health” was dishonest about anything.

LOL

[DCHawk1]

“When you get vaccinated, you not only protect your own health and that of the family but also you contribute to the community health by preventing the spread of the virus throughout the community,” Fauci said. “In other words, you become a dead end to the virus. And when there are a lot of dead ends around, the virus is not going to go anywhere. And that’s when you get a point that you have a markedly diminished rate of infection in the community.”

[zsn]

This is the theory of how vaccines work. I seriously doubt that Fauci was intentionally trying to mislead. No treatment/vaccine is 100% guaranteed to work as desired. If it makes you feel better that you were intentionally misled then go ahead and believe that.

Btw, vaccination did diminish the rate of infection in the community.

[PhDhawk]

But, that pretty much is how it worked against THAT virus...the strain it was designed for. In fact, the vaccine likely still works that well against that strain. But that strain is no longer circulating. Other variants mutated and became more fit. It's remarkable that the vaccines were as effective as they were against other variants. Omicron should basically be considered an entirely different pathogen. That's largely why the bivalent vaccines aren't AS GOOD against omicron as the original vaccines were against the original virus. The new pathogen doesn't just look different (which is how it overcomes our immunity) it behaves different (binds better, invades faster, allowing the infection to occur further up the respiratory tract [may contribute to why it's less lethal] and infecting us faster than our immune systems can react even when immunized [vaccine or natural infection]).

Unfortunately, there's no way to predict what a new variant will be, when it will emerge, or how it will behave. That's not a failure of Fauci or "public health", we just don't have that ability.

Fauci's comments were true AT THAT MOMENT. The bivalent vaccines aren't as protective. But even if they reduce the spread by 15% (which is about what the CDC reported) that would be like dropping the R0 from 6 to 5. Even with that modest reduction, if one sick person entered a city where everyone was vaccinated you'd have around 15,000 infections after 6 rounds as compared to a city with no vaccination that number would be 45,000. So while no longer dead ends, they're still cul-de-sac that slow the virus down.