A.I.

[TDub]

And the general response of adapt or die, yea, I get it, but it still is sad to me and still is an issue for those in that field right now.

It isn’t far fetched to say eventually music will be generated. Movies. And then sports played by superior robots who jump higher and run faster. Humans will be pushed further away from being the creators and participants and instead will be spectators.

falls in line with the youth that love to watch others play video games instead of playing themselves....

which...is insane. We had some battles over nintendo controllers back in the day...nobody wanted to watch...watching sucks. Participation is he joy of everything....

it is one of the most shocking things to me that there are youtubers making a decent living having others watch them play

it's insane.....and sad.

[Mjl]

A.I. in sports is a leap past where we are at the moment.

It would combine with robotics.
Imagine a robot that could dunk from 30 feet away but another robot that would learn how to try and stop that robot by blocking it. And then them all learning how best to beat each other as a team.

Sounds cool. So it'd be like the others - another option, but won't replace the real thing.

[TDub]

A.I. in sports is a leap past where we are at the moment.

It would combine with robotics.
Imagine a robot that could dunk from 30 feet away but another robot that would learn how to try and stop that robot by blocking it. And then them all learning how best to beat each other as a team.

ehh...ive seen battle bots....it sucks.

The thing that's interesting about sports, and music, and arts...is the uniquely human element. The soul.

Music and art, and to some extent, sports...have lost a lot of that "soul" in the last 20 years. I attribute a lot of that to the already existing technology....I dont expect adding more technology to make any of that better. I hate it.

[Mjl]

"Live music with actual instruments isn't going anywhere."

It is going somewhere as more and more musicians become popular using digital instrumentation. I don't think it will fade away but I do think that live instruments won't be needed if you can just replace them with the same sound. So you'll have A.I. writing the tracks, the lyrics, and composing and editing the sound, and someone singing in an auto tuned mic. Or pressing some buttons to alter the live audio.

"There's still going to be a human element for a very long time."

But not necessarily.
If ML was given as much open access to music as it has now to image scraping (without as much fear of litigation) A.I. could learn to mimic an artists voice to a tee, learn what makes a track popular, and create endless songs that could flood the market. Some of those songs would become hits and it'd sound just like someone ( or even a combination ) they already like. I think there'd be traditionalists ( like there are traditionalists in illustration/design/painting etc ) who would never listen to that...but i'm betting there'd be a ton of younger people that would.

If there's a new song created and released every day that sounds just like Taylor Swift that isn't Taylor Swift, you're going to get people to listen to it.

"I don't think they'd be all that different from the garbage of the last 5-10 years."

Kinda sad statement to me. There have been a ton of great movies made in the last 5-10 years. And just saying, 'well, there's crap out there, let's just made it crappier," doesn't do much for me.

"Imperfections are a key element of sport."

They are also a key element of music and of art.

But based on your reasoning live music would already be dead. Symphonies wouldn't cost a fortune to attend.

In general, what outcome is it that you're so worried about and why? That nobody will create truly good things? Or that we won't create flawed things? If the latter, why does that bother you?

[TDub]

beauty is in the flaws. Discovery is in flaws.

Perfection is only exciting because it's nearly impossible and non duplicatable. If a computer can make perfection repeatable it becomes boring and insignificant.

It stymies the advancement of humans...in whichever direction that advancement or retraction goes. Instead of trial and error and invention and discovery, people sit and wait for the computer to tell them the "best" answer.

[TDub]

Ill use buildings as an example because that's what I do.

Walk into a new, cookie cutter home. Built efficiently, quickly, by essentially men who have become "robots" (tho with human errors, yes) specific repeatable tasks on every unit.

The houses/buildings have no feeling, no character, no soul. Almost clinical, sterile feeling.

Contrast that with walking into a 100 year old house. The walls are lumpy, the plaster rolls like a wave, the wood is hand tooled and has irregularities, not machined to a perfect, repeatable pattern. The doors and floors creak a bit. But, the house has a warmness, a history, a feeling, character and a story. An individual history, a unique storyline. Precisely because its not just production by perfection.

[Mjl]

But this is my point - you guys aren't alone in this thinking - not even close. There's going to be a market for natural stuff for the foreseeable future because of it.

[TDub]

maybe. But because there's a market does not necessarily ensure there will be an availability of product.

All depends on the efficiency, productivity, and profitability of each option. (dammit Q, you owe me a whiskey).

we're a ways off topic here....im talking decades in the future if not more. Nearly certain I won't be around for it....thank goodness.

[TDub]

to expand on that a bit perhaps...
As things progress,, if indeed they go this mechanized and soulless route, I'm not entirely sure there will be a market for it, at least not a substantial one.

People will grow up with that being the norm, the new, the cool, the trendy. The ways of and the love of the human element and its errors will drift away from the zeitgeist and be seen as inefficient or imperfect.

It is possible that no one will want that anymore and the things that make things great (to me) will be lost.

To some extent, we have watched that happen over the course of the last 100 years, particularly the last 50.

It will be after I'm dust....but, I do fear AI and the various things that encompasses, potentially will be the downfall of our civilization. (Assuming we navigate and outlast the more immediate threats).

[pdub]

I don’t think civilization will become lost but will become more and more soulless and more and more perfect.

Relying more and more A.I. will show humans have far more flaws and it will be more efficient just to let the machines do their thing for us.

[KUTradition]

Contrast that with walking into a 100 year old house. The walls are lumpy, the plaster rolls like a wave, the wood is hand tooled and has irregularities, not machined to a perfect, repeatable pattern. The doors and floors creak a bit. But, the house has a warmness, a history, a feeling, character and a story. An individual history, a unique storyline. Precisely because it’s not just production by perfection.

this makes me think of hand- vs machine-carved

when done by hand, each piece is wholly unique, one of a kind

when talking art, i personally don’t want to spend good money on something that has been mass produced and lacks individuality

for me, the notion that NOBODY has what i have is part of the draw

[pdub]

And I think that generation after generation people like you ( and me and TDub and twocoach but not Mjl bc he already wants to be a robot ) may become fewer and fewer - at least to the same level.

NFTs, or an evolution of that, will be the way that others in the future will say they have something unique.

[pdub]

Related is the movie a.i. of which Spielberg lightened up on his take over.

Kubrick was warning.
Spielberg made it with a happier ending.
The robot is programmed to try and feel. The feelings are flawed and cause turmoil. Eventually the future evolved “people” who are now robots find him and program a happy ending fulfilling his dream. They don’t understand something so antiquated as emotions.

So I’m arguing that if the evolution is less humanity, ie the separation of humans from art, well, that’s shitty. Probably not much we can do as this train is running but in the short term, artists are bound to loose their jobs to programmers.

[KUTradition]

a lot of people, art aside, are bound to loose their jobs to programmers

we’re gonna have to have a global base income, because there isn’t going to be enough work left for everyone (if humanity makes it that far)

[TDub]

This thread reminds me why I like history significantly more than I like futurology.

[KUTradition]

This thread reminds me why I like history significantly more than I like futurology.

i’ll pick you up in my delorian later so we can head back to the mid-1800s

[TDub]

This thread reminds me why I like history significantly more than I like futurology.

i’ll pick you up in my delorian later so we can head back to the mid-1800s

I'm in.

[Mjl]

Contrast that with walking into a 100 year old house. The walls are lumpy, the plaster rolls like a wave, the wood is hand tooled and has irregularities, not machined to a perfect, repeatable pattern. The doors and floors creak a bit. But, the house has a warmness, a history, a feeling, character and a story. An individual history, a unique storyline. Precisely because it’s not just production by perfection.

this makes me think of hand- vs machine-carved

when done by hand, each piece is wholly unique, one of a kind

when talking art, i personally don’t want to spend good money on something that has been mass produced and lacks individuality

for me, the notion that NOBODY has what i have is part of the draw

Exactly! There's a reason that stuff costs so much more. There is value in human-made imperfections in these areas where we already can produce a cheaper, more perfect thing.

That's perfect evidence that AI-generated stuff will be another option, but not a full replacement.

[Mjl]

And I think that generation after generation people like you ( and me and TDub and twocoach but not Mjl bc he already wants to be a robot ) may become fewer and fewer - at least to the same level.

NFTs, or an evolution of that, will be the way that others in the future will say they have something unique.

Ok JFish

[Mjl]

a lot of people, art aside, are bound to loose their jobs to programmers

we’re gonna have to have a global base income, because there isn’t going to be enough work left for everyone (if humanity makes it that far)

People have been saying this kind of thing with every technological advances and it usually creates more jobs than it eliminates. Yeah, there are more people with desk jobs and less manual laborers than 200 years ago. I don't see why that's a bad thing.