Another mass shooting

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

i really don’t understand how some can continue to say, with a straight face, that this country doesn’t have a gun problem

It's not that hard to understand their opinion.

Those people and you (and me) have a fundamental disagreement on the role the gun plays in these situations.

I agree we have a gun problem.

Others think it is a culture and violence problem (which I also agree with) because the guns don't load, aim, and shoot themselves. A person is required to operate it and use it in that manner.

I disagree with those people about there being a gun problem. But I understand their point.

Their point is fucking ignorant. A problem can have two or more equal (or unequal) aspects. Just as the gun problem in this country has.

[TDub]

putting the blame on solely the equipment is a simpletons answer....its a societal problem, it's a mental illness problem, its a how we're raising our kids problem just as much as its a gun problem.

[Deleted User 863]

i really don’t understand how some can continue to say, with a straight face, that this country doesn’t have a gun problem

It's not that hard to understand their opinion.

Those people and you (and me) have a fundamental disagreement on the role the gun plays in these situations.

I agree we have a gun problem.

Others think it is a culture and violence problem (which I also agree with) because the guns don't load, aim, and shoot themselves. A person is required to operate it and use it in that manner.

I disagree with those people about there being a gun problem. But I understand their point.

Their point is fucking ignorant. A problem can have two or more equal (or unequal) aspects. Just as the gun problem in this country has.

I agree with you gutter.

[Deleted User 863]

putting the blame on solely the equipment is a simpletons answer....its a societal problem, it's a mental illness problem, its a how we're raising our kids problem just as much as its a gun problem.

I think it's all of those things MORE than it's a gun thing.

Our country has had a lot of guns for a long time. School shootings, at the frequency we are experiencing, are something that only started in the last 2 to 3 decades.

[ousdahl]

[TDub]

hows the drug war going? did we win?

did it stop people from using drugs?

did it stop drug related crime?

did it make a ton of people criminals , with felonies and prison time, who otherwise wouldn't be an issue to society?

[ousdahl]

wait, are you trying for some analogy between drugs and guns?

[TDub]

not between the products.

between the laws regarding the products.

overarching laws without compromise that do nothing to prevent use....but do turn regular people into felons.

[Deleted User 863]

I think there are entirely too many guns in the United States. To start we need to get as many illegal guns off the street as we possibly can, and have stiff penalties for gun violence and possession of illegal/stolen firearms.

[TDub]

there are more drug deaths than gun deaths.....not counting the number of gun deaths that are also drug related.

we are in the process of legalizing drugs.

drugs aren't a victimless scenario either.


Im not advocating for stricter drug laws or to reignite the failure that was the drug war.

im saying there has to be a compromise that doesn't turn everyday Americans into felons.

[twocoach]

putting the blame on solely the equipment is a simpletons answer....its a societal problem, it's a mental illness problem, its a how we're raising our kids problem just as much as its a gun problem.

I fully agree that the problem isn't "only" guns. But you can't legislate how we raise our kids. You can legislate additional funds for mental illness support but few Republicans politicians are supportive of spending money on that. When we scream at our government to "do something", there are only so many things they can do. What can be legislated is access to guns. They just choose to do a piss poor job of it.

[twocoach]

there are more drug deaths than gun deaths.....not counting the number of gun deaths that are also drug related.

we are in the process of legalizing drugs.

drugs aren't a victimless scenario either.


Im not advocating for stricter drug laws or to reignite the failure that was the drug war.

im saying there has to be a compromise that doesn't turn everyday Americans into felons.

We aren't in the process of legalizing the types of drugs that people are dying from. I don't see any states trying to legalize recreational opioids or fentanyl. There's a huge difference there that you glossed over to make your point.

[TDub]

there are more drug deaths than gun deaths.....not counting the number of gun deaths that are also drug related.

we are in the process of legalizing drugs.

drugs aren't a victimless scenario either.


Im not advocating for stricter drug laws or to reignite the failure that was the drug war.

im saying there has to be a compromise that doesn't turn everyday Americans into felons.

We aren't in the process of legalizing the types of drugs that people are dying from. I don't see any states trying to legalize recreational opioids or fentanyl. There's a huge difference there that you glossed over to make your point.

1. It doesn't have to be an overdose for a death to be drug related.

2. Actually yea they are....Oregon did last year. They "decriminalized" everything. Pay a $100 fine or call a counselor and its off the record.

[Mjl]

putting the blame on solely the equipment is a simpletons answer....its a societal problem, it's a mental illness problem, its a how we're raising our kids problem just as much as its a gun problem.

I think it's all of those things MORE than it's a gun thing.

Our country has had a lot of guns for a long time. School shootings, at the frequency we are experiencing, are something that only started in the last 2 to 3 decades.

Is it? The school my older daughter goes to was shot up in '88. I don't know if it's more common or if we hear about them more .

(looks it up...)

Oh wow, yeah, it has picked up.
80s - 66 school shootings
90s - 97
00s - 68
10s - 232
20s - 103

Holy crap. So what changed? People have had mental illness forever. There have been shitty parents forever.

[Deleted User 863]

putting the blame on solely the equipment is a simpletons answer....its a societal problem, it's a mental illness problem, its a how we're raising our kids problem just as much as its a gun problem.

I fully agree that the problem isn't "only" guns. But you can't legislate how we raise our kids. You can legislate additional funds for mental illness support but few Republicans politicians are supportive of spending money on that. When we scream at our government to "do something", there are only so many things they can do. What can be legislated is access to guns. They just choose to do a piss poor job of it.

Fwiw, as someone with a spouse in the mental health industry, I think the government would have trouble spending those allocated dollars in any sort of productive way when it comes to preventing mass shootings through mental health "support".

[Deleted User 863]

putting the blame on solely the equipment is a simpletons answer....its a societal problem, it's a mental illness problem, its a how we're raising our kids problem just as much as its a gun problem.

I think it's all of those things MORE than it's a gun thing.

Our country has had a lot of guns for a long time. School shootings, at the frequency we are experiencing, are something that only started in the last 2 to 3 decades.

Is it? The school my older daughter goes to was shot up in '88. I don't know if it's more common or if we hear about them more .

(looks it up...)

Oh wow, yeah, it has picked up.
80s - 66 school shootings
90s - 97
00s - 68
10s - 232
20s - 103

Holy crap. So what changed? People have had mental illness forever. There have been shitty parents forever.

It'd also be interesting to see # of people shot in each instance over time. My guess is that less people were shot in the 80s and prior incidents. Because I think most stats count a school shooting as any incident at a school where there is a shooting, and not necessarily the more recent craze of people going in and trying to kill as many students randomly as possible.

[zsn]

Is there a “Another Mass Fentanyl Overdose” thread that I missed? Or a “[double digit number] dead from a random person spraying fentanyl in [a public space]” news headline/article?

Not saying that fentanyl isn’t a problem but the logic pretzel is at a new level

[TDub]

Total deaths is the puzzle piece you've missed.

There are mass fetanyl overdoses everyday.

72,000+ fetanyl deaths last year alone.

[TDub]

its disguised as candy, its laced in minor, somewhat harmless drugs.
and fentanyl isn't even the path I was trying to go down with my comments. It's its own, seperate, path.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

A lot of different factors come in to play when we discuss drug and gun deaths.
Yes, too often there are direct relationships/correlations between the two.
That being said, I don't know too many people who choose to be shot and killed. Their poor life decisions may be a factor in their getting shot and killed but my guess is they would prefer not to get shot and killed. WAY too many people are killed by guns that had no reason to be killed other than they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Drugs are a different story. Most people who die because of drugs (either from using them or being involved in drug sales/purchasing) die because of their own choice/s.