Official Gamethread UK vs KU

[CrimsonNBlue]

I think Yesufu is just a bad fit. Sorta like Clemence. He's a decent ballplayer. But he's small and needs the ball in his hands but he doesn't have the right skillset to be a PG at KU under Self. So, he plays off the ball but isn't a catch and shoot guy and isn't big enough to make backdoor cuts or catch lobs.

I think he’d be really good at a place like Houston, SMU, Memphis. Undersized guards do well there and play above their talent.

He's better than Charlie Moore and he did well at Miami in the ACC.

Not sure if I agree with that. Moore played better at Cal than Yesufu did at Drake (or here obviously).

But that’s a good example of bad fit and Yes might also need to go somewhere else to unlock his potential.

[Deleted User 863]

for me it’s been a season and a half. Time to do something.

I agree.

I hate the idea of force outs though. So I feel very torn. When the player is an ideal jayhawk on and off the court (aside from on court performance) I really struggle to think it is fair to kick them off the team simply because Self fucked up and made a bad recruiting decision. If there are other issues (which there aren't with Yes) then that is a different situation.

If Yes wants to stay at KU, even if he's buried on the bench, then I think he has earned that right.

[Mjl]

Yesufu didn't struggle as a sophomore at all. He was MVC sixth man of the year. That's for what he did before he was a starter.

[PhDhawk]

I think he’d be really good at a place like Houston, SMU, Memphis. Undersized guards do well there and play above their talent.

He's better than Charlie Moore and he did well at Miami in the ACC.

Not sure if I agree with that. Moore played better at Cal than Yesufu did at Drake (or here obviously).

But that’s a good example of bad fit and Yes might also need to go somewhere else to unlock his potential.

I'm comparing them as Jayhawks. Yes has been better. Moore couldn't back up a freshman PG and forced us to pull Och's shirt. His stats are inflated by one game against South Dakota. Yes has been bad, but at least he's getting outcompeted by Pettiford....we were desperate for Moore to contribute and he did nothing.

[CrimsonNBlue]

He's better than Charlie Moore and he did well at Miami in the ACC.

Not sure if I agree with that. Moore played better at Cal than Yesufu did at Drake (or here obviously).

But that’s a good example of bad fit and Yes might also need to go somewhere else to unlock his potential.

I'm comparing them as Jayhawks. Yes has been better. Moore couldn't back up a freshman PG and forced us to pull Och's shirt. His stats are inflated by one game against South Dakota. Yes has been bad, but at least he's getting outcompeted by Pettiford....we were desperate for Moore to contribute and he did nothing.

Oh. Yeah, Moore was garbage here. Seemed impossible that he was good at Cal.

[ousdahl]

"outcompeted" by Pettiford seems generous. Dude isn't exactly making himself stand out in comparison.

But, even if he's not executing at a high level, at least Bobby has the PG/defensive instincts, I guess? Joe doesn't even have that. If he's not scoring, he doesn't bring much. And the thing is, he's not scoring.

if we're discussing Charlie Moore here too, maybe the theme is, Self and his system just don't have much use for an undersized scoring guard who can't play lead.

I still wonder if Yes miiiight be more effective as the lone small...just let him play on the ball and see if maybe at least we get some spell minutes at the 1 out of it that are better than Bobby, and/or 2 smalls.

I think it's largely on Yes to show something either way, but after Self's comments this week and the way the previous 3 games went, I thought we were past the multiple smalls out there at once phase. But then again, I dunno if at UK is the time to start tinkering.

[ousdahl]

I think Yesufu is just a bad fit. Sorta like Clemence. He's a decent ballplayer. But he's small and needs the ball in his hands but he doesn't have the right skillset to be a PG at KU under Self. So, he plays off the ball but isn't a catch and shoot guy and isn't big enough to make backdoor cuts or catch lobs.

yea not catch and shoot. and yea not big enough for lobs. But, have we even run back door cuts for Yes, though?

yea it'd be great if he had more size, and more size might help execute such cuts.

But, he at least seems quick enough, perhaps, to get past his man on a cut and get fed for a layup. I think Jalen/Mc/KJ/Dick have all shown the ability to make such a pass, too.

And, though he's not a catch and shoot guy, he's at least more of a catch and shoot guy than anyone on our roster not named Jalen or Gradey...among rotation players, at least. If Joe DOES get a jumper, it's normally just on some sorta broken play, or some sorta ill-advised early trigger, rather than a deliberate catch and shoot play, right?

I kinda wonder if part of the issue is he's a scorer who never gets anything ran for him to get looks to score. Maybe there's some chicken and egg there, though.

[ousdahl]

and re: catch and shoot, I thought Zach Clemence totally IS that guy, even if he's otherwise playing as a big. Yea he's only played limited minutes, but have we even run anything for him like that? Just get him some quick pick-and-pops? Or something else to get him an open J? Again, it seems like his only shots come on broken plays and stuff. (or on Self checking him in and stubbornly running an old school big man post look for him that ended up not working)

And, yea, we could better use a backup big who just comes in and plays big, defense and rebounds, but for the sake of making the most of what personnel you do got, maybe Zach checking in for a couple quick pick-and-pop possessions would be worth something.

[Deleted User 863]

"And, yea,...., but...."


Gotta love it.

[KUTradition]

can you not be an annoying cunt all the fucking time?

[Deleted User 863]

"Here's the thing, yea, I could, but....."

[jfish26]

and re: catch and shoot, I thought Zach Clemence totally IS that guy, even if he's otherwise playing as a big. Yea he's only played limited minutes, but have we even run anything for him like that? Just get him some quick pick-and-pops? Or something else to get him an open J? Again, it seems like his only shots come on broken plays and stuff. (or on Self checking him in and stubbornly running an old school big man post look for him that ended up not working)

And, yea, we could better use a backup big who just comes in and plays big, defense and rebounds, but for the sake of making the most of what personnel you do got, maybe Zach checking in for a couple quick pick-and-pop possessions would be worth something.

Clemence has a 22.2% usage rate at KU. Obviously in limited minutes, but that's higher than...all other rotation and near-rotation guys on this team.

[ousdahl]

oh, go figure.

yea limited minutes tho.

last year, he was a freshman behind two upperclassman in the rotation. This year, front court minutes have been entirely up for grabs, but he's only playing 1 more minute per game (5.8 vs 4.9). And, compared to last year all his other stats are down...dang

[Deleted User 863]

Because he's a slow stretch 4 and we have the best stretch 4 (JW) in the country...and another stretch 4 (KJ) who is also versatile enough to play the 5.

There is no place for Clemence here if starting and playing major minutes is a priority for him, unfortunately.

[CrimsonNBlue]

and re: catch and shoot, I thought Zach Clemence totally IS that guy, even if he's otherwise playing as a big. Yea he's only played limited minutes, but have we even run anything for him like that? Just get him some quick pick-and-pops? Or something else to get him an open J? Again, it seems like his only shots come on broken plays and stuff. (or on Self checking him in and stubbornly running an old school big man post look for him that ended up not working)

And, yea, we could better use a backup big who just comes in and plays big, defense and rebounds, but for the sake of making the most of what personnel you do got, maybe Zach checking in for a couple quick pick-and-pop possessions would be worth something.

Clemence has a 22.2% usage rate at KU. Obviously in limited minutes, but that's higher than...all other rotation and near-rotation guys on this team.

I haven’t looked at the stats, but it seems like his trigger isn’t as quick this season.

[jfish26]

Because he's a slow stretch 4 and we have the best stretch 4 (JW) in the country...and another stretch 4 (KJ) who is also versatile enough to play the 5.

There is no place for Clemence here if starting and playing major minutes is a priority for him, unfortunately.

I mean, not now or anytime soon, no. But I do think history suggests no scholarship big should ever look to transfer.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Clemence has been playing a lot better, for him, as of late.

Had no business being in yesterday’s game, of course.

[ousdahl]

good point. How often DOES a scholarship big transfer?

Carlton Bragg, tho he was in and out of the dog house. And just not that good at basketball.

Gethro (RIP)

Silvio, but more doghouse.

Dwight Coleby...coulda actually prob used him for depth in 18, especially after Billy's fender bender and all, but I guess Silvio ended working out when we needed it.

who am I forgetting?

Enaroona, but he wasn't really a big. I thought he had the potential to be some kinda small ball 5, especially for that stretch when DMac and Silvio were suspended, but nah

[jfish26]

good point. How often DOES a scholarship big transfer?

Carlton Bragg, tho he was in and out of the dog house. And just not that good at basketball.

Gethro (RIP)

Silvio, but more doghouse.

Dwight Coleby...coulda actually prob used him for depth in 18, especially after Billy's fender bender and all, but I guess Silvio ended working out when we needed it.

who am I forgetting?

Enaroona, but he wasn't really a big. I thought he had the potential to be some kinda small ball 5, especially for that stretch when DMac and Silvio were suspended, but nah

Meanwhile, the list of guys whose patience was rewarded is quite long.

[CrimsonNBlue]

This should be about the last year dealing with the effects of down recruiting from the NCAA investigation.

Bill’s system seems to be to build the bugs ranked in the 20’s, 30’s, 40’s into amazing junior and senior players.

Most of our frosh bigs don’t play bc there is almost always upperclassmen bigs. The frosh bigs then get short leashes.