Patrick Mahomes

[Deleted User 863]

It's a team sport. So he benefits from Kelce, Reid, and previously Tyreek. Just like Brady from good defenses and Bill.

Evaluating individuals who play in team sports will always have aspects of subjectivity even when eras overlap.

It's funny though, because a month ago many people seemed to think Allen and Burrow were as good as Mahomes. Winning has shut that talk down.

[jfish26]

I think people get all crazy hyped after Super Bowl wins.

Mahomes is great but still has a ways to go.

But a ways to go, for what exactly?

When it comes down to it, there are precisely three things that matter (in some order): (1) team success, (2) individual cumulative performance and (3) individual peak performance.

At present - at 27 years old, having started for five years - and among only quarterbacks even in the same conversation on items 2 and 3 above, he's chasing only Brady and Montana in team success (and is tied with Elway and Manning). Item 2 is a matter of staying healthy and motivated, so we'll put a pin in it. He's on top of item 3 already, and unless something goes sideways he'll only extend his lead.

So, taken together, I'm comfortable saying he'd be no worse than t-3 all time if his career ended suddenly tomorrow.

[NewtonHawk11]

I think people get all crazy hyped after Super Bowl wins.

Mahomes is great but still has a ways to go.

But a ways to go, for what exactly?

When it comes down to it, there are precisely three things that matter (in some order): (1) team success, (2) individual cumulative performance and (3) individual peak performance.

At present - at 27 years old, having started for five years - and among only quarterbacks even in the same conversation on items 2 and 3 above, he's chasing only Brady and Montana in team success (and is tied with Elway and Manning). Item 2 is a matter of staying healthy and motivated, so we'll put a pin in it. He's on top of item 3 already, and unless something goes sideways he'll only extend his lead.

So, taken together, I'm comfortable saying he'd be no worse than t-3 all time if his career ended suddenly tomorrow.

Yeah. After thinking about it more, I think I'm putting him at 3. New list!

1. Brady - Had team success but also just some incredible seasons. Made the Patriots as you can see by how crummy they've been since he left.
2. Montana - Was Brady before Brady. Great team success but also individually was a major cause of that success.
3. Mahomes - See my thoughts previously. Just an incredible QB who has HOSTED 5 straight conference championship games and is on pace to be the best.
4. Peyton - Incredible regular season QB. Was average more often than not in the playoffs. 14-13 postseason record. 40 TDs and 25 INTs. Just kind of blah.
5. Marino - He had some crappy luck with the Dolphins but the dude was putting up numbers that QBs are putting up now, when the NFL still believed in run-first offenses. The best QB to not win the Super Bowl and it isn't close.

[Deleted User 863]

Prime Peyton Manning was as lethal as any QB in history.

At least in the regular season.

[KUTradition]

apparently Gronk thinks Mahomie can challenge brady for GOAT

[jfish26]

apparently Gronk thinks Mahomie can challenge brady for GOAT

Obviously a lot of things have to go right for Mahomes to even approach the ring count.

BUT - the next material thing Mahomes does at the NFL level that isn't just the best, but the best by a couple orders of magnitude...will be the first such thing.

[jfish26]

This is more or less where I’m at.

[Sparko]

In the same place Fish. Now I want him bubble wrapped on car rides.

[Deleted User 863]

I don't disagree.

Would that same line of thinking also have Giannis pretty high up on the NBA all time list?

[NewtonHawk11]

NBA is difficult to say because there's literally 8 guys you could call the best in the league right now and nobody would bat an eye. James, Giannis, Embiid, Steph, KD, Luka, Tatum and Jokic.

There's ZERO question that Mahomes is the best player in the NFL today.

But to answer your question, Giannis is a top 20 player of all time right now.

[pdub]

I think people get all crazy hyped after Super Bowl wins.

Mahomes is great but still has a ways to go.

But a ways to go, for what exactly?

When it comes down to it, there are precisely three things that matter (in some order): (1) team success, (2) individual cumulative performance and (3) individual peak performance.

At present - at 27 years old, having started for five years - and among only quarterbacks even in the same conversation on items 2 and 3 above, he's chasing only Brady and Montana in team success (and is tied with Elway and Manning). Item 2 is a matter of staying healthy and motivated, so we'll put a pin in it. He's on top of item 3 already, and unless something goes sideways he'll only extend his lead.

So, taken together, I'm comfortable saying he'd be no worse than t-3 all time if his career ended suddenly tomorrow.

For me, a ways to go to be top 3 ever.

I am a long known advocate for stats across the board and of course understand they are weighted more in moments like a couple days ago but it’s a team sport as well.

Postseason not included ( and you hope and expect it to continue to be ) he will get there easily enough just by having his worst regular season over and over again for 5-7 years.

[Deleted User 863]

It's going to be tough for him to pass Manning for me. Manning has the far superior sibling.

[pdub]

Kinda wish someone would just kidnap him or something.

[Deleted User 863]

Oh Skip. Some of your hot takes are bad.

[Deleted User 863]

Kinda wish someone would just kidnap him or something.

We should trade Jackson Mahomes and JuJu for a cheeseburger and a roll of duct tape.

[jfish26]

I think people get all crazy hyped after Super Bowl wins.

Mahomes is great but still has a ways to go.

But a ways to go, for what exactly?

When it comes down to it, there are precisely three things that matter (in some order): (1) team success, (2) individual cumulative performance and (3) individual peak performance.

At present - at 27 years old, having started for five years - and among only quarterbacks even in the same conversation on items 2 and 3 above, he's chasing only Brady and Montana in team success (and is tied with Elway and Manning). Item 2 is a matter of staying healthy and motivated, so we'll put a pin in it. He's on top of item 3 already, and unless something goes sideways he'll only extend his lead.

So, taken together, I'm comfortable saying he'd be no worse than t-3 all time if his career ended suddenly tomorrow.

For me, a ways to go to be top 3 ever.

I am a long known advocate for stats across the board and of course understand they are weighted more in moments like a couple days ago but it’s a team sport as well.

Postseason not included ( and you hope and expect it to continue to be ) he will get there easily enough just by having his worst regular season over and over again for 5-7 years.

Obviously it’s an entirely subjective thing. Still, it seems like a fairly joyless bar to ask a guy to hit: just have your worst regular season over and over again for 5-7 years.

I understand the point you’re making - that he’s been so good that repeating his WORST season over the course of a career would still leave him on Rushmore - but I don’t personally see it that way. Especially in a sport that kills you, I would find a Bron-esque forced march through the record books to be a possibly pretty grim experience. And one that wouldn’t be consistent with the sort of Ben McLemore-type JOY that Mahomes plays with.

[pdub]

Im not saying I want him to do that nor am I saying I expect him to do that.

I’m just saying he has more work to do and I think it’s almost a given that, by career end, he will finish top 3 all time with a good chance at 2 and an outside chance at 1.

[KUTradition]

“If there were any doubters left there shouldn’t be now,” Mahomes said, h/t ProFootballTalk. “The way he stepped on this stage, and ran, threw the ball, whatever it took for his team to win. I mean, that was a special performance. I don’t want it to get lost in the loss that they had. I mean, even whenever we got all the momentum in that game, and we went up eight points in the fourth quarter, for him to respond and move his team down the football field and run in himself in a two-point conversion, it was a special performance by him and I mean, you make sure you appreciate that when you look back on this game.”

class

[Sparko]

Mahomes is a guy you would crawl through glass for. Hurts played well. Statistics can be kind of skewed in a game with a defensive TD and essentially a ST TD. Mahomes had one negative read in the whole game according to Simms. But he has become a true leader. Imagine the feeling as a lineman watching him get injured. Man

[holidaysmore]

Guys just has it and gets it. Opponents respect the heck out of him and his teammates just love him. Run through a wall for him.
I believe a lot of that comes from him growing up in a major league ball club locker room and his pops being an OG type of player.