American Educational System In a Nutshell?

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

This is a PUBLIC school.




Then you have this.....






The first thing I ask myself is - Why? I know why - but why is it acceptable?

[jfish26]

I'd respond to your post but I'm too busy watching my children, who are inexplicably home from school due to...checks notes...a Super Bowl parade.

[KUTradition]

the disparity in public schools across the country is laughable

but, it’s to be expected when support/funding is tied to political parties rather than objective metrics of school/student needs

[jfish26]

the disparity in public schools across the country is laughable

but, it’s to be expected when support/funding is tied to political parties rather than objective metrics of school/student needs

The knee-jerk NIMBY response to disparities like this is that it's all attributable to tax bases. Which is fine as far as it goes...but ignores just how sweeping the good is, that would come from spending and spending and spending on awesome educational experiences specifically FOR areas with less affluent tax bases.

[ousdahl]

Wait.

Did you just say spending and spending and spending with regard to “awesome educational experiences?” In area with less affluent tax bases?!

bro you misspelled “cop city”

[KUTradition]

the disparity in public schools across the country is laughable

but, it’s to be expected when support/funding is tied to political parties rather than objective metrics of school/student needs

The knee-jerk NIMBY response to disparities like this is that it's all attributable to tax bases. Which is fine as far as it goes...but ignores just how sweeping the good is, that would come from spending and spending and spending on awesome educational experiences specifically FOR areas with less affluent tax bases.

i’d wager that those you’re referring to likely have a deferent idea of “good” than you or i do

[jfish26]

the disparity in public schools across the country is laughable

but, it’s to be expected when support/funding is tied to political parties rather than objective metrics of school/student needs

The knee-jerk NIMBY response to disparities like this is that it's all attributable to tax bases. Which is fine as far as it goes...but ignores just how sweeping the good is, that would come from spending and spending and spending on awesome educational experiences specifically FOR areas with less affluent tax bases.

i’d wager that those you’re referring to likely have a deferent idea of “good” than you or i do

Maybe! But I'll bet also that those I'm referring to are also deeply afraid of "youths" roaming the streets.

[DCHawk1]

LOL@thisthread

[twocoach]

This is a PUBLIC school.




Then you have this.....






The first thing I ask myself is - Why? I know why - but why is it acceptable?

There are more than 5,400 students that go to that high school. Of course it is huge. Carmel, IN isn't some ultra-rich world. My wife and I lived there for three years; it's a nice, suburban area but nothing super extravagant.

Frankly, I'd be pissed if there were 5,400 students at my kid's high school. That's way too many people. Build another high school already.

[KUTradition]

I'd be pissed if there were 5,400 students at my kid's high school. That's way too many people. Build another high school already.

^^^^

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

I don't know, I'm making a hopeful assumption that people are less bothered by the size than they are with the unnecessarily extravagant facilities - while we have schools in the conditions such as those in the videos I provided.
I have experienced it first hand. It really sucks when privately funded volunteer programs need to be set up because the city and state don't budget for things such as simple NEDDED upkeep in the schools.

Moving on.......
Anyone's innocent kid/s get shot in/at a school today in this country?

Sorry, enough of my gloom and doom. Both things just really piss me off.

[twocoach]

I'd be pissed if there were 5,400 students at my kid's high school. That's way too many people. Build another high school already.

^^^^

When I lived there 20 years ago, there were over 4,000 students at that high school and there were already massive growing pains. Some kids were taking classes in trailers behind the school because they didn't have enough classroooms. And that was 1,000+ students ago.

[TDub]

I'd be pissed if there were 5,400 students at my kid's high school. That's way too many people. Build another high school already.

^^^^

When I lived there 20 years ago, there were over 4,000 students at that high school and there were already massive growing pains. Some kids were taking classes in trailers behind the school because they didn't have enough classroooms. And that was 1,000+ students ago.

my high school had 2500ish kids we had trailers around the school to act as classrooms.

That same school now has only like 800 kids.

My kids school has 50ish kids in HS total. Her grade has 9.

My education was fine. Her education will be fine. Though it is 100% true yoi get more individual attention in small schools and the parents seem way more involved in small schools.


The flipside of that is that I had more varied opportunities, I was probably pushed harder, there was more funding (in general, perhaps not on a per kid basis) and sports (not that they are supremely important) was a way way higher quality at my school. You had to actually be good to make the teams and play. The small schools all you have to do is show up and you're on the team.


The sports comment is why I always kinda chuckle and stay quiet when people from tiny schools talk about their has sports career and how many pts they scored etc...yea...cool, that was 1b. we played 4a (biggest at the time) and played up and down the corridor, hit all the big city schools with div 1 talent.

[twocoach]

I'd be pissed if there were 5,400 students at my kid's high school. That's way too many people. Build another high school already.

^^^^

When I lived there 20 years ago, there were over 4,000 students at that high school and there were already massive growing pains. Some kids were taking classes in trailers behind the school because they didn't have enough classroooms. And that was 1,000+ students ago.

my high school had 2500ish kids we had trailers around the school to act as classrooms.

That same school now has only like 800 kids.

My kids school has 50ish kids in HS total. Her grade has 9.

My education was fine. Her education will be fine. Though it is 100% true yoi get more individual attention in small schools and the parents seem way more involved in small schools.


The flipside of that is that I had more varied opportunities, I was probably pushed harder, there was more funding (in general, perhaps not on a per kid basis) and sports (not that they are supremely important) was a way way higher quality at my school. You had to actually be good to make the teams and play. The small schools all you have to do is show up and you're on the team.


The sports comment is why I always kinda chuckle and stay quiet when people from tiny schools talk about their has sports career and how many pts they scored etc...yea...cool, that was 1b. we played 4a (biggest at the time) and played up and down the corridor, hit all the big city schools with div 1 talent.

Agree with all of that. Some kids will thrive wherever they are. Others need lots of options, still others need the smaller, more personalized attention. Just depends on your kids and the district.

We just need to find a way to close the financial gap on the districts where funding prevents them from keep competent staff or from providing a functional learning environment. Everyone in a society benefits from all members of the society having a basic education and some hope for a law abiding, income earning future.

[zsn]

“Parental involvement” is a funhouse mirror. You can see what you want to see. In my daughters’ middle school classes there were parents who felt that the kids weren’t challenged enough and they wanted the teachers to assign more homework. In the same class were parents who felt that their kids were being overly burdened with homework.

Now that the “kids” are in their mid 20s it’s not hard to see how the parents’ outlook correlate with what the kids are currently up to.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

Bear with this long post. There is a method to my madness. I truly don't expect anyone to read it all.
I'm going to write a stream of consciousness so I can look back at it one day and revisit what went right and what went wrong in terms of my education.

I grew up in a small town named Glencoe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glencoe,_Illinois.
Considered an "affluent" town, yet the public schools were nothing special in terms of the buildings/facilities.
There was West School, North School, South School, and Central School. Central was K through 8th grade. 7th and 8 grade being Junior High. The other schools were K through 6th grade.
Started at West School until 4th grade. They closed West School due to a lack of need (population wise).
4th through 6th I went to North. 7th and 8th I went to Central. In other words, 3 different "grade" schools in the same small town in 5 years.
After Central I went to New Trier West which was 9th through 12th grade. New Trier West was located 4.8 miles from my home. After my Freshman year New Trier West became Freshman only. I then went to New Trier East which was Sophomore to Senior. New Trier East was 5.5 miles from my home.
In other words, I lived in the same house and went to 5 different schools in 7 years NOT by choice.

For many reasons, I feel I was given an outstanding education from K through 8th grades. Meanwhile, the facilities were nothing more than average. What mattered were those who were educating me. Smallish classrooms in terms of the amount of students (typically 20 to 25 students in a class) and if I could have changed anything, there is very little I would have changed.

Now let's get to New Trier. New Trier has (or at least had) a reputation of being one of the best public High School "system" in the country. Yep, fantastic for those they particularly cater to. Problem for my sake is the school/s have too many students - 1,064 in my graduating class. Different levels of classes based on how good or bad a student is. I was typically in lower to mid level classes. I put basically ZERO effort in to my "studies" and passed with B and C grades. Had I been in higher level classes I would have flunked out. Had I been in lower level classes I would have been an A and B student. Took the SAT and ACT. Scored lower than expected on the SAT (was at a party the night before getting shit faced - not an "excuse" per se but a valid reason to express I didn't care about the test as much as I should have). Then I cared about the ACT and scored beyond expectations - to the point I was actually accused of cheating on it.
BIG conundrum when it came to applying for schools. I admit grade wise I was considered in the lower 10% of my graduating class. My SAT score was about average for the nation. My ACT score was in the top 30%. I applied to many schools. Was accepted at schools I probably shouldn't have been (such as Tulane), was denied at schools I probably shouldn't have been (such as CU).
KU was at the bottom of my list of schools I was accepted to. Went to visit KU and Tulane on the same trip. Arrived at KU on a perfect Spring day. Weather was perfect. Had no idea how beautiful the campus was and I fell in love. Don't know the exact number but I know between 20 and 30 people in my New Trier graduating class ended up going to KU. I was one of them.

As far as my KU eduction, I fucked around and put in very little effort. Failed some classes. Got a few "incompletes", a couple of D grades, some Cs, a couple of Bs, and an A.

KU would have probably kicked me out but I wasn't going to go back regardless. My father was very sick and I didn't want to go back to KU.
I took some vocational testing and educational testing through Illinois Institute of Technology. 2 consecutive full days of intense testing. Everything from the Rorschach test to learning I might be well suited to be a fire watcher (I'm being serious - as well as other "interesting" occupations).

All of a sudden after receiving the results of all the tests - KABOOM!!!!!
Gee Gutter, did you know on some levels you test at a 6th grade level and on some levels you test as being at a college grad school level?
Nope, I really had no idea - yet, I did have some clues.
Gee Gutter, did you know you have a major learning disability (terrible auditory memory and practically auditory dyslexia). Nope, it was NEVER detected in ALL my years of schooling at what was considered one of the best public educational systems in the country.
Why not? Well, because I "got by"? Sure.
Because when I was at New Trier there were so many students - and the students who had parents that were so involved in their kid's education were catered to by the educators and schools administrators - and I was an after thought? Sure.

So a million words later in this post, I am going to comment on a few other things that relate to me and don't relate to me.
I have seen first hand how some kids can excel at horrible schools - not so much because they are smart - and more because they have teachers who truly care about them.
I have seen some kids who struggle at great schools - not so much because they are dumb - and more because they have teachers who don't care about them.
Yes, there are "norms" in regards to poverty and poor education and wealth and good eduction but I believe so much more has to do with who specifically is doing the educating and how much do they truly care about those they are educating.

In closing, of course the American educational system has its strengths and weaknesses. I'm a perfect example of the positives and negatives in regards to just a small facet.
I could write a million more words on the subject that do NOT pertain to me - and maybe I will in the not too distant future - but I have to go get ready for my much needed shrink appointment.

[randylahey]

American education system in a nutshell? That's easy:

A government run indoctrination system that teaches dependence on the system and zero life skills

[TDub]

“Parental involvement” is a funhouse mirror. You can see what you want to see. In my daughters’ middle school classes there were parents who felt that the kids weren’t challenged enough and they wanted the teachers to assign more homework. In the same class were parents who felt that their kids were being overly burdened with homework.

Now that the “kids” are in their mid 20s it’s not hard to see how the parents’ outlook correlate with what the kids are currently up to.

as usual you've found yourself looking in your own fun house mirror when discussing posts.

By parental involvement I was referring to volunteering for various events, for coordination and cooperation in getting kids to and from school in the community, to showing up at all the school events and community events. That sort of thing....

not parents that go the the PTA board to make themselves feel better by raising a fuss just to hear their own voice. That's not parental involvement for the kids sake...thats parental involvement for the parents sake.