COVID-19 - On the Ground

[Mjl]

Did I miss something?
Who here labeled the idea that it may have been a lab leak a "conspiracy theory"?

That's very, very different than "Fauci worked with China and the pharmaceutical companies to manufacture a new virus and intentionally unleash it on the world". Now that's a conspiracy theory. Despite the fact that some parts of it may be true.

[PhDhawk]

Right. China may have leaked the virus. It also may have crossed over from an animal as a zoonosis. Like Pdub says, we'll probably never know. There isn't a smoking gun situation to confirm zoonotic crossover, there are smoking guns that could confirm a lab leak...but those are also things that could be covered up.

What we can say is that the research that was funded by the NIH that has been called into question by some is not what created the SARS-CoV-2 virus. At least not the research that was explicitly funded. This involved making viral chimeras. They attach a gene sequence from specimen found in nature, attach them to an attenuated virus (less virulent than normal) and see if the viruses can invade human cells. Basically seeing if viruses from other animals have the potential to crossover to humans. But, since they're chimeras, it's like taking the first two paragraphs from Moby Dick and attaching it to the last 3 paragraphs of Huckleberry Finn. It would be obvious, there would also be clear indications of piecing the genomes together as well as probably obvious reporter genes....something like GFP (green fluorescence protein). SARS-CoV-2 is not a chimera of two other viruses. There are close relatives found in nature.

All of the evidence, that's been made public, is circumstantial. That's true for both the lab leak hypothesis and the natural crossover. I don't trust China, but there is a greater precedent for zoonotic crossover as this has happened several times prior with coronaviruses.

[pdub]

I'm gathering there's a good chance that China does actually know, at this point.
I think it will be a while, if ever, until the rest of the world can make a conclusion as well as China can.

[PhDhawk]

I'm gathering there's a good chance that China does actually know, at this point.
I think it will be a while, if ever, until the rest of the world can make a conclusion as well as China can.

I would be interested in knowing what the new evidence that the energy department obtained that made them make this determination.

[jhawks99]

Page 666

[PhDhawk]

Page 666

Mich will soon chime in with about 11 posts about what a waste of time it is to post here.

[MICHHAWK]

at the very least, this thread gives some of you a reason to get out of bed in the morning.

[randylahey]

Ok, I'm 100% in favor of accountability but what exactly should Fauci held accountable for - and if he should be held accountable, what if anything in regards to Covid and the USA's response to it should Trump be held accountable for?

What did Trump have to do with it?
Faucci was funding the gain of function research that enhanced the transmissability of this virus that infected the global population. And faucci has been lying in court trying to cover his tracks since

What did Trump have to do with the USA's response to Covid?
Are you seriously asking me that question?

Faucci (You probably mean the NIH) funded the research that "enhanced the transmissibility" of the virus?
If the NIH did, why would you feel it's a bad thing - to fund research?

I didnt ask that. You threw in the word "response"

I asked what Trump had to do with covid itself. The answer is nothing.

[jfish26]

What did Trump have to do with it?
Faucci was funding the gain of function research that enhanced the transmissability of this virus that infected the global population. And faucci has been lying in court trying to cover his tracks since

What did Trump have to do with the USA's response to Covid?
Are you seriously asking me that question?

Faucci (You probably mean the NIH) funded the research that "enhanced the transmissibility" of the virus?
If the NIH did, why would you feel it's a bad thing - to fund research?

I didnt ask that. You threw in the word "response"

I asked what Trump had to do with covid itself. The answer is nothing.

What - in the fuck - are you talking about?

Trump’s administration kneecapped our overseas surveillance efforts (materially weakening our readiness for something like Covid and, yes, our ability to detect things like a lab leak or natural mutation).

And THEN, Trump openly, willingly, intentionally, knowingly - all of it - chose, for political reasons, to suppress detection efforts and results even once anyone with a pulse knew there was a very significant problem on our soil.

And THEN, Trump openly fought against mitigation efforts.

His stupid, greasy fingerprints are all over this.

[randylahey]

What did Trump have to do with the USA's response to Covid?
Are you seriously asking me that question?

Faucci (You probably mean the NIH) funded the research that "enhanced the transmissibility" of the virus?
If the NIH did, why would you feel it's a bad thing - to fund research?

I didnt ask that. You threw in the word "response"

I asked what Trump had to do with covid itself. The answer is nothing.

What - in the fuck - are you talking about?

Trump’s administration kneecapped our overseas surveillance efforts (materially weakening our readiness for something like Covid and, yes, our ability to detect things like a lab leak or natural mutation).

And THEN, Trump openly, willingly, intentionally, knowingly - all of it - chose, for political reasons, to suppress detection efforts and results even once anyone with a pulse knew there was a very significant problem on our soil.

And THEN, Trump openly fought against mitigation efforts.

His stupid, greasy fingerprints are all over this.

None of this is even close to true lol this is the most biased propaganda based opinion I've heard. Trump wanted to close travel to China well before the rest of the world shut down, but he was labeled "xenophobic" but the media and his political enemies when he suggested doing that

[randylahey]

What did Trump have to do with the USA's response to Covid?
Are you seriously asking me that question?

Faucci (You probably mean the NIH) funded the research that "enhanced the transmissibility" of the virus?
If the NIH did, why would you feel it's a bad thing - to fund research?

I didnt ask that. You threw in the word "response"

I asked what Trump had to do with covid itself. The answer is nothing.

What - in the fuck - are you talking about?

Trump’s administration kneecapped our overseas surveillance efforts (materially weakening our readiness for something like Covid and, yes, our ability to detect things like a lab leak or natural mutation).

And THEN, Trump openly, willingly, intentionally, knowingly - all of it - chose, for political reasons, to suppress detection efforts and results even once anyone with a pulse knew there was a very significant problem on our soil.

And THEN, Trump openly fought against mitigation efforts.

His stupid, greasy fingerprints are all over this.

A lot of us fought against mitigation efforts. Because they were crashing our economy and bringing life as we knew it to a hault, and were later proven to be ineffective. Many of us were smart enough to realize this all along

[jfish26]

I didnt ask that. You threw in the word "response"

I asked what Trump had to do with covid itself. The answer is nothing.

What - in the fuck - are you talking about?

Trump’s administration kneecapped our overseas surveillance efforts (materially weakening our readiness for something like Covid and, yes, our ability to detect things like a lab leak or natural mutation).

And THEN, Trump openly, willingly, intentionally, knowingly - all of it - chose, for political reasons, to suppress detection efforts and results even once anyone with a pulse knew there was a very significant problem on our soil.

And THEN, Trump openly fought against mitigation efforts.

His stupid, greasy fingerprints are all over this.

None of this is even close to true lol this is the most biased propaganda based opinion I've heard. Trump wanted to close travel to China well before the rest of the world shut down, but he was labeled "xenophobic" but the media and his political enemies when he suggested doing that

At absolutely NO point in time was closing the border to travel from China going to make one lick of difference, absent comprehensive (and, yes, obtrusive) mitigation efforts at home. Pointing to Trump’s favorability toward border closings is like saying someone who built a house without a roof is doing the right thing in a rainstorm by, like, hooking a couple umbrellas together over a doorway. Congratulations, rube, you’ve managed to make it so a few drops of rain drip down your stupid umbrella before landing on your carpet straightaway.

[MICHHAWK]

yes. sure. dt's handling of the china fungus was a clusterphucque. then uncle joe took over and clusterphucqued it up about 3 fold.

[jfish26]

I didnt ask that. You threw in the word "response"

I asked what Trump had to do with covid itself. The answer is nothing.

What - in the fuck - are you talking about?

Trump’s administration kneecapped our overseas surveillance efforts (materially weakening our readiness for something like Covid and, yes, our ability to detect things like a lab leak or natural mutation).

And THEN, Trump openly, willingly, intentionally, knowingly - all of it - chose, for political reasons, to suppress detection efforts and results even once anyone with a pulse knew there was a very significant problem on our soil.

And THEN, Trump openly fought against mitigation efforts.

His stupid, greasy fingerprints are all over this.

A lot of us fought against mitigation efforts. Because they were crashing our economy and bringing life as we knew it to a hault, and were later proven to be ineffective. Many of us were smart enough to realize this all along

This logic is just straight out of the bad-faith R playbook: cut good governance efforts off at the knees, and then blame the government when the (kneecapped) efforts don’t work. Go back and read my history, you’ll find that I’ve been very consistent on this point: the mitigation efforts that WOULD have worked - and they absolutely would have worked - would clearly have been illegal to mandate, and impractical besides. So I’m not saying they should have been mandated!

And yet it was Trump, more than any other single individual on the face of the planet, who was responsible for bending the public will away from collective, consensual action that might have made a difference. For causing and exacerbating division that rendered the feeble mitigation efforts we DID mount to be ultimately ineffective.

Of course, that’s not even close to the most ludicrous way Rs twist logic in just obviously silly ways; take the frequent rube bleating over JUST HOW MUCH fentanyl our border agents are confiscating. As if that somehow proves that our border security is…ah…ineffective?

[MICHHAWK]

to put it in football terms. dt took the kickoff, and ran the china fungus clusterphucque football to his own 30 yardline. then uncle joe comes in. takes the handoff and runs that clusterphucque for 70 yards into the endzone.

[defixione]

to put it in football terms. dt took the kickoff, and ran the china fungus to the endzone.

[ousdahl]

I wonder how big a deal covid would have been, and if we coulda saved the world a lotta trouble, if Trump hadn’t fired so many of the folks overseeing labs in China or whatever

[Overlander]

I didnt ask that. You threw in the word "response"

I asked what Trump had to do with covid itself. The answer is nothing.

What - in the fuck - are you talking about?

Trump’s administration kneecapped our overseas surveillance efforts (materially weakening our readiness for something like Covid and, yes, our ability to detect things like a lab leak or natural mutation).

And THEN, Trump openly, willingly, intentionally, knowingly - all of it - chose, for political reasons, to suppress detection efforts and results even once anyone with a pulse knew there was a very significant problem on our soil.

And THEN, Trump openly fought against mitigation efforts.

His stupid, greasy fingerprints are all over this.

Many of us were smart enough to realize this all along

Funniest, and at the same time, most tragic post on this site in a while.

[Shirley]

Lab, Market, China, whatever, who/m/ever.
If Fauci created Covid 19 and released it on the world, cut his balls off and make him eat them.
Otherwise, let's move on and hopefully learn from our mistakes. As a country and a world.

[DCHawk1]

This thread is America in a nutshell.

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.