Let’s have a war!

[japhy]

Goddamnit Japhy. I’ve never once said Putin has some mitigating reason.

really?????

hmm

Just so Q can be clear..


THEY started it!

So the Qusdahl pages are saying this should be understood in the context of 8 years of NATO shit on the Ukraine border. What were the details of that whole Crimea drama in 2014, and since?

Also saying there’s a lot of neo nazi shit to it. You know how the Qusdahl pages be

Since I apparently must really clarify: I’m anti-war. By anyone anywhere. INCLUDING PUTIN AND RUSSIA. And including this “Azov battalion” in the Ukraine. Anyone know what’s up with them?

Apparently they’re the nazi-infested extremist group that’s been propped up as part of the ruling regime by….some alliance or another…since 2014, and during that time has allegedly killed 14000 civilians in that area.

* allegedly. I dunno what I’m talking about here. I just saw some tweets. Pics like this floating around.



But I haven’t verified it.

thread:

I only looked through the first bit of this thread, but maybe this jogs your memory?

[Deleted User 863]

dammit illy....why ya gotta call me out like that. hahaha

[ousdahl]

I just, again, think it’s bonkers to have no awareness or sense of cause and effect as so the west’s actions, or to insist that they have nothing to do with anything here.

You keep saying this. That is NOT what is happening in this thread.

I was gonna go back and show examples of this very thing happening in this thread, but holy shit, now we got Japhy doing it in real time!

[Mjl]

And to be clear, I think our "strategy" in Ukraine -- such as it is -- is courting global and domestic disaster, is poorly thought-out, and is, inarguably, proof positive that Eisenhower was right.

At the same time, I don't think "both sides bad!" is an actual position, much less the premise for strategic decisions.

I'd be interested in some elaboration on this

[ousdahl]

[ousdahl]

I just, again, think it’s bonkers to have no awareness or sense of cause and effect as so the west’s actions, or to insist that they have nothing to do with anything here.

You keep saying this. That is NOT what is happening in this thread.

I was gonna go back and show examples of this very thing happening in this thread, but holy shit, now we got Japhy doing it in real time!

mjl too!

[ousdahl]

“Both sides bad” is indeed an oversimplification. My angle was more, let’s actually understand just what the fuck our own country has been up to, and how it relates to this current situation.

could be wrong, but the reason you got pushback is that you thought “we” should be having this conversation while innocent people are dying and having their homes invaded and destroyed

i made the rather apt analogy (imo) early on that it was akin to talking about gun control in the midst of a mass shooting

you then, also, brought the nazi bs into it, which is very much a putin talking point (almost EVERY “european” country, russia for certain, has a nazi/neo-nazi movement/problem)…as if that was a legitimate reason for the invasion in the first place

Sorry, just saw this…

Yea, innocent people are dying and having their homes invaded and destroyed. But, to refuse to gain understanding about that cuz it’s happening is about as useful as refusing to talk about gun violence in the wake of a shooting.

And, as I’ve said over and over and over, both of these things can be true:

- Putin’s rhetoric is bullshit
- Ukraine has a nazi problem either way

Yea, unfortunately enough, almost every country has a nazi problem. But Ukraine’s is unique in that their nazi problem seems to have achieved some critical mass, to a degree im just not sure we see in other “free” countries.

We got Ukrainians getting elected as mayors with SS and 88 and white supremacist symbols as part of their election campaign. What other country has that?

We got Ukrainian soldiers sporting nazi symbols on their military uniforms, including soldiers in Zelensky’s own personal detail. What other country has that?

We got Ukrainians throwing Hitler salutes in parades. What other country has that?

We got Ukrainians glorifying Bandera, some Uber-nationalist nazi collaborator, as some national hero, giving him a Ukrainian holiday, banning books that criticize him. What other country has that?

We got Ukrainians exhibiting that candidly in western media, despite that same western media insisting it’s not happening. What other country has that?

We got other westerners rationalizing and making excuses like “but just cuz the Nazis used those symbols doesn’t mean Ukrainians are Nazis for wearing it on their uniforms too!” What other country would westerners make such excuses for?

And on top of all that, we got Ukrainians running around with weapons paid for by you and me. Where else does that happen?

Not to mention shit like zelensky banning opposition parties and those sorta fascist details I honestly haven’t paid much attention too.

And, trust me, I wish it wasn’t true! I wish Ukraine really did seem more like some model of freedom and democracy that were told to believe it is.

But, it is kinda ridiculous how that shit continues to pop up, even on zelensky’s own personal social media, anyway.

And, AGAIN, all that in no way justifies Russia’s invasion!

[KUTradition]

it’s like you didn’t even read or care to pay attention to all the responses that have been offered about “the nazi” problem

“critical mass”? really? because twitter says so?

a non-insignificant number of the published images have been shown to be fakes (hmmm…wonder where they came from)

someone, maybe TDub? offered up numbers about just how many “nazis” there may be in Ukraine’s military…an insignificant number by most any measure other than your twitter algorithm’s

and yet, here you are beating the drum and speaking out of both sides of your mouth. you say it’s not justification, but then post that diatribe?

lulz

[KUTradition]

if it’s not justification, than quit making it out to be a bigger issue than it is

hell, even putin has quit with the rhetoric because he knows most of the world has seen right through it

[TDub]

it’s like you didn’t even read or care to pay attention to all the responses that have been offered about “the nazi” problem

“critical mass”? really? because twitter says so?

a non-insignificant number of the published images have been shown to be fakes (hmmm…wonder where they came from)

someone, maybe TDub? offered up numbers about just how many “nazis” there may be in Ukraine’s military…an insignificant number by most any measure other than your twitter algorithm’s

and yet, here you are beating the drum and speaking out of both sides of your mouth. you say it’s not justification, but then post that diatribe?

lulz

I did....like 100 pages ago

[ousdahl]

it’s like you didn’t even read or care to pay attention to all the responses that have been offered about “the nazi” problem

“critical mass”? really? because twitter says so?

a non-insignificant number of the published images have been shown to be fakes (hmmm…wonder where they came from)

someone, maybe TDub? offered up numbers about just how many “nazis” there may be in Ukraine’s military…an insignificant number by most any measure other than your twitter algorithm’s

and yet, here you are beating the drum and speaking out of both sides of your mouth. you say it’s not justification, but then post that diatribe?

lulz

the responses that have been offered about the nazi problem have been mostly either "bro but that's just more Russian propaganda," or, (again) “but just cuz the Nazis used those symbols doesn’t mean Ukrainians are Nazis for wearing it on their uniforms too!” Those are pretty weak reasons.

(If your homie got a swastika tattoo, but said, "actually don't worry about it bro it's just a Tibetan good luck charm!" would you take his word for it and shrug the rest off? Or would you think, Jesus Christ dude, American History X called, Ed Norton wants his ink back!)

yea, no doubt there are fakes out there. But, please realize, I've chosen my sources very carefully here, despite the refrain that I'm just posting kooky hot takes from fringe twitter accounts - who do you think I am, Randy in the covid thread, or DC in the Isreal thread?!

In reality, I've posted images of Nazis in Ukraine from places like PBS, and Reuters, and NATO, and CNN, and the State department, and the Ukrainian army chief, and Zelensky's own instagram account. So, to say the very least, those are some convincing ass fakes.

But then realize, these are all outlets that are otherwise trying to downplay the presence of nazis in Ukraine, not convince us they're there. That makes the evidence seem less like convincing fakes, and more candidly and unintentionally legit, doesn't it?

and, if I post "diatribes" like this, it's cuz I'm offering it as evidence that our own strategy about Ukraine here really might be "poorly thought-out" and "courting global and domestic disaster," to put it one way.

[ousdahl]

it’s like you didn’t even read or care to pay attention to all the responses that have been offered about “the nazi” problem

“critical mass”? really? because twitter says so?

a non-insignificant number of the published images have been shown to be fakes (hmmm…wonder where they came from)

someone, maybe TDub? offered up numbers about just how many “nazis” there may be in Ukraine’s military…an insignificant number by most any measure other than your twitter algorithm’s

and yet, here you are beating the drum and speaking out of both sides of your mouth. you say it’s not justification, but then post that diatribe?

lulz

I did....like 100 pages ago

was that the Azov representative who estimated only about 10 percent of their forces (about 1000 total) are openly neo-nazi?

if that's the case, and if we're really gonna take some Azov dood's word for it, then I guess the question becomes, why the F does western media focus so much on those 100 guys?!

[ousdahl]

if it’s not justification, than quit making it out to be a bigger issue than it is

but that' the thing - it's difficult to know exactly how big an issue it is! There's so much (dis?)information surrounding the issue, the issue as a matter of rhetoric is downplayed, yet the issue keeps popping up anyway.

hell, even putin has quit with the rhetoric because he knows most of the world has seen right through it

see, it's like I've told you guys all along:

Putin's rhetoric is bullshit.

[TDub]

it’s like you didn’t even read or care to pay attention to all the responses that have been offered about “the nazi” problem

“critical mass”? really? because twitter says so?

a non-insignificant number of the published images have been shown to be fakes (hmmm…wonder where they came from)

someone, maybe TDub? offered up numbers about just how many “nazis” there may be in Ukraine’s military…an insignificant number by most any measure other than your twitter algorithm’s

and yet, here you are beating the drum and speaking out of both sides of your mouth. you say it’s not justification, but then post that diatribe?

lulz

I did....like 100 pages ago

was that the Azov representative who estimated only about 10 percent of their forces (about 1000 total) are openly neo-nazi?

if that's the case, and if we're really gonna take some Azov dood's word for it, then I guess the question becomes, why the F does western media focus so much on those 100 guys?!

nope. keep trying

[jfish26]

Thumbing through Twitter this morning, I was just delighted to see that one of our "we shouldn't be involved in Ukraine/Russia at all" elected representatives is in favor of...bombing Mexico.

Bang-up job, Marge.

[japhy]

Thumbing through Twitter this morning, I was just delighted to see that one of our "we shouldn't be involved in Ukraine/Russia at all" elected representatives is in favor of...bombing Mexico.

Bang-up job, Marge.

Not surprising, there has been a Nazi population in that part of North America for a long time. No one wants to talk about it now, but Kit Carson was just killing Nazis back in the day.

[KUTradition]

*gasp*

[ousdahl]

where'd you get that pic Japhy? What's the context and history and such?

I tried searching for it, but could only find it on some fringe Twitter pages, and some website that calls itself "pro-swastika"

also, speaking of illegal invasions and war crimes and such...Kit Carson lulz.

[TDub]

"It was used by many southwestern tribes, most notably the Navajo. Among different tribes the swastika carried various meanings. To the Hopi it represented the wandering Hopi clans; to the Navajo it represented a whirling log ( tsil no'oli' ), a sacred image representing a legend that was used in healing rituals."


not real difficult to find.....

[TDub]

took 3 seconds....less time than it takes to refresh your twitter feed.