Israel/Palestine

[ousdahl]

There you go with the condescension again, heavy as ever.

brb gonna go find a poster who’s instead just here to help.

[DCHawk1]

Based on your posts, it's legit question.

They're ALL legist questions.

[Deleted User 863]

Q will be the one asking the questions around here, not you DC.

[ousdahl]

ok, here's what I do know about Israel:

I know that, like the war thread, I can't post legitimately concerning articles about it from otherwise respectable sources, without certain other posters not only ignoring that info but also displaying some western imperial jingoistic sort of reaction.

I also know there is some counter-narrative that really does mostly only exist among some ben-and-jerry left (who is otherwise largely just concerned about basic human rights issues at large; in, yea, some sky-is-falling sorta way), that describes Israel is a radical militant extremist right wing gummint, furnished by you and me, that is going all apartheid police state on Palestinians.

and, let's get to the conspiracy thread:

Remember how I made some distinction about how one side of the bell curve seems to only believe what they wanna believe, while the other seems to more so be willing to confront inconvenient truths they'd rather not believe?

all I have to say is, I really do want to believe Israel really is some outpost of freedom and democracy, and not some brutal militant extremist bullshit. But if it is some brutal militant extremist bullshit, I guess I'd prefer to keep my head in the sand about it too.

buuuuuuut if we really must go full Qusdahl, howsabout an example!

remember that journalist Israeli police "accidentally" shot in the head?

here's how her funeral went:

[DCHawk1]

To clarify, this isn't condescension. It's Socratic dialogue:

Do you know who Murray Gell-Mann is or what his friend, the novelist Michael Crichton, said about him?

[KUTradition]

To clarify, this isn't condescension. It's Socratic dialogue:

Do you know who Murray Gell-Mann is or what his friend, the novelist Michael Crichton, said about him?

might be the smartest thing you’ve posted

[ousdahl]

Whoa, the Jurassic Park guy?!

Cuz otherwise, no I don’t know them. For the sake of Socratic dialogue, please feel free to inform me.

And, again for Socratic dialogue, could I ask you to help me make sense of that funeral procession?

[MICHHAWK]

ok, here's what I do know about Israel:

I know that, like the war thread, I can't post legitimately concerning articles about it from otherwise respectable sources, without certain other posters not only ignoring that info but also displaying some western imperial jingoistic sort of reaction.

I also know there is some counter-narrative that really does mostly only exist among some ben-and-jerry left (who is otherwise largely just concerned about basic human rights issues at large; in, yea, some sky-is-falling sorta way), that describes Israel is a radical militant extremist right wing gummint, furnished by you and me, that is going all apartheid police state on Palestinians.

and, let's get to the conspiracy thread:

Remember how I made some distinction about how one side of the bell curve seems to only believe what they wanna believe, while the other seems to more so be willing to confront inconvenient truths they'd rather not believe?

all I have to say is, I really do want to believe Israel really is some outpost of freedom and democracy, and not some brutal militant extremist bullshit. But if it is some brutal militant extremist bullshit, I guess I'd prefer to keep my head in the sand about it too.

buuuuuuut if we really must go full Qusdahl, howsabout an example!

remember that journalist Israeli police "accidentally" shot in the head?

here's how her funeral went:

you are very passionate about your internet blathering. if you would just channel all that energy into something.....

[Deleted User 863]

Q is so informed and enlightened on every subject. It's quite impressive.

[Shirley]

Florida Sheriff GOES OFF on Neo-Nazi "Scumbags"

"Mike Chitwood, the sheriff of Volusia County, Florida, proclaimed he will be on the "hit list" of a neo-Nazi group after he identified them as the source of hate group activity in the Daytona Beach area — and he is not backing down, according to The Daily Beast on Monday.

"Chitwood identified the Goyim Defense League (GDL) as the organization behind the disturbing behavior, which included leaving antisemitic flyers on people’s doorsteps and hanging anti-Jewish banners from busy pedestrian bridges during Daytona 500 weekend," reported Justin Rohrlich. "On Feb. 17, the GDL held a demonstration outside Chabad of South Orlando, harassing pedestrians and motorists, according to the Anti-Defamation League. The next day, members hung signs at the Daytona International Speedway with sayings such as, 'Henry Ford was right about the Jews.' They later projected antisemitic slogans on the outside of the track, with one reading, 'Hitler was right.'"

At his press conference on the incident, Chitwood said, “These scumbags came to the wrong county… We are not going to tolerate this. This is not about free speech. This is about violence.”

[...]

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

ok, here's what I do know about Israel:

I know that, like the war thread, I can't post legitimately concerning articles about it from otherwise respectable sources, without certain other posters not only ignoring that info but also displaying some western imperial jingoistic sort of reaction.

I also know there is some counter-narrative that really does mostly only exist among some ben-and-jerry left (who is otherwise largely just concerned about basic human rights issues at large; in, yea, some sky-is-falling sorta way), that describes Israel is a radical militant extremist right wing gummint, furnished by you and me, that is going all apartheid police state on Palestinians.

and, let's get to the conspiracy thread:

Remember how I made some distinction about how one side of the bell curve seems to only believe what they wanna believe, while the other seems to more so be willing to confront inconvenient truths they'd rather not believe?

all I have to say is, I really do want to believe Israel really is some outpost of freedom and democracy, and not some brutal militant extremist bullshit. But if it is some brutal militant extremist bullshit, I guess I'd prefer to keep my head in the sand about it too.

buuuuuuut if we really must go full Qusdahl, howsabout an example!

remember that journalist Israeli police "accidentally" shot in the head?

here's how her funeral went:

Let me guess, sort of like randy, you didn't bother to do some of your own research in to this and instead just viewed a single social media post - and then commented on here about it.

Yes, no doubt looks terrible how the Israeli police are reacting and are portrayed in the video.
BUT......

HER FAMILY and the police were in agreement in regards to exactly what would transpire at the funeral. It was a coordinated funeral between the family and the police and the police were initially there to keep peace and ensure the family's wishes were respected.

Those carrying the casket in the video were NOT a planned part of the funeral procession and they had "forcefully" taken possession of casket that was supposed to go in to a hearse. Heck, even her brother was yelling at the crowd. So..... The police responded.

Did the police need to react in the extreme forceful manner in which they did? Maybe, maybe not.
ANYONE/EVERYONE in Israel should realize that this would be a toxic event and the Israeli police don't fuck around - and if you disrespect them and their orders - they are going to react with force. Often "unreasonably".

[Deleted User 863]

ok, here's what I do know about Israel:

I know that, like the war thread, I can't post legitimately concerning articles about it from otherwise respectable sources, without certain other posters not only ignoring that info but also displaying some western imperial jingoistic sort of reaction.

I also know there is some counter-narrative that really does mostly only exist among some ben-and-jerry left (who is otherwise largely just concerned about basic human rights issues at large; in, yea, some sky-is-falling sorta way), that describes Israel is a radical militant extremist right wing gummint, furnished by you and me, that is going all apartheid police state on Palestinians.

and, let's get to the conspiracy thread:

Remember how I made some distinction about how one side of the bell curve seems to only believe what they wanna believe, while the other seems to more so be willing to confront inconvenient truths they'd rather not believe?

all I have to say is, I really do want to believe Israel really is some outpost of freedom and democracy, and not some brutal militant extremist bullshit. But if it is some brutal militant extremist bullshit, I guess I'd prefer to keep my head in the sand about it too.

buuuuuuut if we really must go full Qusdahl, howsabout an example!

remember that journalist Israeli police "accidentally" shot in the head?

here's how her funeral went:

Let me guess, sort of like randy, you didn't bother to do some of your own research in to this and instead just viewed a single social media post - and then commented on here about it.

Yes, no doubt looks terrible how the Israeli police are reacting and are portrayed in the video.
BUT......

HER FAMILY and the police were in agreement in regards to exactly what would transpire at the funeral. It was a coordinated funeral between the family and the police and the police were initially there to keep peace and ensure the family's wishes were respected.

Those carrying the casket in the video were NOT a planned part of the funeral procession and they had "forcefully" taken possession of casket that was supposed to go in to a hearse. Heck, even her brother was yelling at the crowd. So..... The police responded.

Did the police need to react in the extreme forceful manner in which they did? Maybe, maybe not.
ANYONE/EVERYONE in Israel should realize that this would be a toxic event and the Israeli police don't fuck around - and if you disrespect them and their orders - they are going to react with force. Often "unreasonably".

Not sure why you waste your time G.

Q spends 25 or 30min reading some articles or social media threads on a complex subject and then sprints here to prove his superior "knowledge".


It's tiring. And he's not very good at becoming an expert on things quickly. As evidenced by his actual life outside of the messageboard.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

I truly have no problem with Q or anyone else sharing their thoughts and opinions regarding Israel.
Heck, I am very critical of many things in regards to Israel.
The difference is I have been to Israel and have spoken in depth to people who live there.

I found it most interesting that after having in depth conversations with "important" people.....
Such as Major General Giora Eiland (He was the head of the National Security Council), Dalia Rabin (Yitzak Rabin's Daughter), Major General Noam Tibon (One of the the leaders of Israeli Counter Terrorism and Homeland Security), Miri Eisen (Israeli intelligence "leader" and I believe the highest ranked female in the Israeli military - and foreign media advisor to a prime minister), and was an invited guest ("public" is not allowed to visit) at the Palmachin Air Base and spoke with various "leaders" on the base. One actually joked - "I could tell you exactly what we do here but then I would have to kill you". Thing is, it wasn't a joke.
......... All of them have vastly different thoughts and opinions - but they also all had one thing very much in common.
They want/ed a peaceful existence for themselves and their country - and yet I feel not a single one of them wasn't concerned that there are countries that surround them that have political and military leaders who are hell bent on that NOT happening. If so, I feel their concern is/was very much valid.

[Shirley]

Given Trump's slavish need to be liked and adoration, i.e., worship, of despots, praise Allah he's not in office now.

For decades whenever republicans hold the presidency, it can be difficult to distinguish between Israeli domestic and American foreign policy.

Saudi Arabia Offers Its Price to Normalize Relations With Israel

The Saudi crown prince is seeking a civilian nuclear program and security assurances from President Biden, a steep price for an agreement long sought by Israel...

[Mjl]

I'm cool with that.

Peace between Saudi Arabia and Israel would be a really big deal.

[DCHawk1]

Given Trump's slavish need to be liked and adoration, i.e., worship, of despots, praise Allah he's not in office now.

For decades whenever republicans hold the presidency, it can be difficult to distinguish between Israeli domestic and American foreign policy.

Saudi Arabia Offers Its Price to Normalize Relations With Israel

The Saudi crown prince is seeking a civilian nuclear program and security assurances from President Biden, a steep price for an agreement long sought by Israel...

LOL

Whatever else you think about Trump -- and I join you in thinking the worst -- his record in Israel and its Arab neighbors is almost inarguably the most successful of any American president.

That said, I'm with Mjl. Official Saudi-Israeli peace would shake up everything.

[Shirley]

Saudi Arabia and Iran announced Friday an agreement to resume relations. The announcement was made in a joint statement signed by the two countries and China and carried by Saudi and Iranian state media.

The agreement was a result of talks in Beijing that began Monday in an initiative by Chinese President Xi Jinping aimed at “developing good neighborly relations” between Iran and Saudi Arabia, the statement said. China hosted and sponsored talks between the two countries in light of “a desire [by both] to resolve the disputes between them through dialogue and diplomacy within the framework of the fraternal ties that unite them.”

[...]

[Shirley]

I'm cool with that.

Peace between Saudi Arabia and Israel would be a really big deal.

I'm for it too.

I'm just glad that Trump won't be involved in doing it, considering the need to arrange Javanka's cut, and all...

[ousdahl]

Saudi Arabia and Iran announced Friday an agreement to resume relations. The announcement was made in a joint statement signed by the two countries and China and carried by Saudi and Iranian state media.

The agreement was a result of talks in Beijing that began Monday in an initiative by Chinese President Xi Jinping aimed at “developing good neighborly relations” between Iran and Saudi Arabia, the statement said. China hosted and sponsored talks between the two countries in light of “a desire [by both] to resolve the disputes between them through dialogue and diplomacy within the framework of the fraternal ties that unite them.”

[...]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-arab ... 1647351541

Saudi Arabia is in active talks with Beijing to price some of its oil sales to China in yuan, people familiar with the matter said, a move that would dent the U.S. dollar’s dominance of the global petroleum market and mark another shift by the world’s top crude exporter toward Asia.

[Shirley]

Let Freedom Ring!

Israel’s parliament on Thursday passed the first of several laws that make up its contentious judicial overhaul as protesters opposing the changes staged another day of demonstrations aimed at ringing an alarm over what they see as the country’s descent toward autocracy.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s coalition approved legislation that would protect the Israeli leader from being deemed unfit to rule over his corruption trial and claims of a conflict of interest surrounding his involvement in the legal changes. Critics say the law is tailor-made for Netanyahu, encourages corruption and deepens a gaping chasm between Israelis over the judicial overhaul.

[...]