Charges

[jfish26]

I do not follow your crock of shit comment.

If Bragg is unable to make his case, and Trump is found not guilty, then he will not be convicted or punished for the crimes with which he is charged).

That would be the system working as designed (even if Trump in fact did commit the crimes with which he is charged).

As to your last point: this is a party leadership problem, not a Trump problem. At any one of ten thousand points in the last six years, party leadership (both the RNC itself, and elected officials, as well of course as right-leaning media) could have stopped this. Instead, all of them - ALL OF THEM - chose to ride the sugar high.

Now they’re hostage to the monster they created.

That wouldn't be true, even if the defendant weren't the frontrunner for the opposition party's presidential nomination. It's even less so, given that he is.

And speaking of Trump being the frontrunner (by a loooong way) for the nomination, that speaks to your other point, which is far more complicated than you suggest. Yes, the GOP's leaders are weak-kneed and craven, but then, that's an issue in more ways than one. Not only does it explain why Trump has been indulged but also why Trump exists in the first place. The failure of the GOP leadership from 1998-2016 is, I think more relevant to the current condition than its failures from 2016-today.

That said, there is more than enough blame to go around.

I would also say, one of the things that’s making things worse not better is that no elected or prospective-elected republicans are willing to go first at dumping Trump. All of them are privately or half-privately HOPING he gets taken off the board, but all of them also know the circumstances of how that happens are extremely important.

There are only a few ways that can happen that are NOT political death for republicans. And so all of these cowards are just waiting for someone else to do it; Bragg is being accused of bringing a political prosecution, but if that’s true, then one of the reasons it’s happening is that no one on the R side of the fence is willing to put themselves on the line to put Trump out to pasture.

Put differently: the republicans had a golden “Get Out of Trump Free” card with the 1/6 impeachment…and biffed it.

[Sparko]

Pretty incredible mob language threatening the country right now. And CBS giving a rabid idiot a soapbox again tonight with MTG as the misunderstood genius who yearns to kill.

[jfish26]

Pretty incredible mob language threatening the country right now. And CBS giving a rabid idiot a soapbox again tonight with MTG as the misunderstood genius who yearns to kill.

I don’t understand the journalistic purpose served by legitimizing her bullshit.

[KUTradition]

I do not follow your crock of shit comment.

If Bragg is unable to make his case, and Trump is found not guilty, then he will not be convicted or punished for the crimes with which he is charged).

That would be the system working as designed (even if Trump in fact did commit the crimes with which he is charged).

As to your last point: this is a party leadership problem, not a Trump problem. At any one of ten thousand points in the last six years, party leadership (both the RNC itself, and elected officials, as well of course as right-leaning media) could have stopped this. Instead, all of them - ALL OF THEM - chose to ride the sugar high.

Now they’re hostage to the monster they created.

That wouldn't be true, even if the defendant weren't the frontrunner for the opposition party's presidential nomination. It's even less so, given that he is.

And speaking of Trump being the frontrunner (by a loooong way) for the nomination, that speaks to your other point, which is far more complicated than you suggest. Yes, the GOP's leaders are weak-kneed and craven, but then, that's an issue in more ways than one. Not only does it explain why Trump has been indulged but also why Trump exists in the first place. The failure of the GOP leadership from 1998-2016 is, I think more relevant to the current condition than its failures from 2016-today.

That said, there is more than enough blame to go around.

I would also say, one of the things that’s making things worse not better is that no elected or prospective-elected republicans are willing to go first at dumping Trump. All of them are privately or half-privately HOPING he gets taken off the board, but all of them also know the circumstances of how that happens are extremely important.

There are only a few ways that can happen that are NOT political death for republicans. And so all of these cowards are just waiting for someone else to do it; Bragg is being accused of bringing a political prosecution, but if that’s true, then one of the reasons it’s happening is that no one on the R side of the fence is willing to put themselves on the line to put Trump out to pasture.

Put differently: the republicans had a golden “Get Out of Trump Free” card with the 1/6 impeachment…and biffed it.

christie is trying

at least, i think that’s what’s going on

[DCHawk1]

There are/have been plenty of Republicans who have broken bad on Trump.

Some are deceased (RIP, John McCain); some are pretty famous and yet are still likely to be primaried and lose their party's nomination (hi, Mittens!); most are simply out of office/power now.

Ask yourself how a guy goes from being elected to the House at 29, Chairman of the Budget Committee at 41, Vice Presidential nominee at 42, Speaker of the House at 45, to political noooobody at 50.

Some elected Republicans are, indeed, cowards when it comes to Trump. Most are just realists.

[KUTradition]

many/most are just spineles/craven, you mean

[DCHawk1]

Right. You're so clever.

Riddle yourself this, Batman: When Mittens loses the primary for the US Senate seat in Utah, is the guy who beats him (and then walks to the Senate seat) likely to be more or less Trumpian?

[KUTradition]

based on what i’ve seen and heard, they’d be more trumpian

[DCHawk1]

based on what i’ve seen and heard, they’d be more trumpian

Exactly.

So...what's the reward -- to Mittens, to the GOP, to the system -- of Romney's outspoken criticism of Trump?

Unfortunately, Trump is a grass-roots phenomenon. And because that's the case, at this point, the risk is that attacking him too aggressively and overtly will simply strengthen his power base.

[jfish26]

based on what i’ve seen and heard, they’d be more trumpian

Exactly.

So...what's the reward -- to Mittens, to the GOP, to the system -- of Romney's outspoken criticism of Trump?

Unfortunately, Trump is a grass-roots phenomenon. And because that's the case, at this point, the risk is that attacking him too aggressively and overtly will simply strengthen his power base.

I feel like this is from the same failed school of thought as “it’ll be ok if he’s surrounded by adults in the room.”

[KUTradition]

based on what i’ve seen and heard, they’d be more trumpian

Exactly.

So...what's the reward -- to Mittens, to the GOP, to the system -- of Romney's outspoken criticism of Trump?

Unfortunately, Trump is a grass-roots phenomenon. And because that's the case, at this point, the risk is that attacking him too aggressively and overtly will simply strengthen his power base.

that’s exactly the problem, obviously

the reward of “just doing the right thing” (the just thing, the ethical thing, the honest thing, the thing that is best for this country) apparently isn’t as important as courting maga nation (or at the very least not ostracizing them)

[japhy]

Riddle yourself this, Batman: When Mittens loses the primary for the US Senate seat in Utah, is the guy who beats him (and then walks to the Senate seat) likely to be more or less Trumpian?

Katie Hobbs and Gretchen Whitmer think that's not their problem.

[japhy]

You're honestly hinging your argument on the infallibility and independence of (NYC) grand juries?

Nope, but you know that.

But remind me how many seats on the grand jury Bragg sits in?

Or did the whole grand jury make a promise about "getting tRuMp!" cuz I haven't heard about that.

The whole "ham sandwich" thing is trite, but it's also a reference to how much power prosecutors wield over grand juries. It's an established fact. Plus, we're dealing with Manhattanites. For the record, in the election Trump actually WON, HRC beat him by 40 points in Manhattan. These are NOT exactly fans.

It is a grand jury, that is sort how they work as I understand it.

trump's rights include a grand jury of his peers, his (un)popularity amongst the people who know him best from years of close contact is not the DA's responsibility. A seasoned con man like trump you would think would know to do his shady dealings in a more friendly State. And if not, well that's on him.

Poor, poor, Donald. Maybe if you send a card or better yet money you can help him get through this emotionally and pay for some "justice" for the man.

[japhy]

Unfortunately, Trump is a grass-roots phenomenon. And because that's the case, at this point, the risk is that attacking him too aggressively and overtly will simply strengthen his power base.

If only there was something someone could do about this. If the Democrats won't help, who can make a difference?

I suppose the sane republicans could vote for someone less trumpian.... maybe from another party until the party leadership casts trump aside in an obvious way. But no, winning and staying in office is most important thing; so damn the torpedoes, sell your soul to the devil and full speed ahead!

[jfish26]

based on what i’ve seen and heard, they’d be more trumpian

Exactly.

So...what's the reward -- to Mittens, to the GOP, to the system -- of Romney's outspoken criticism of Trump?

Unfortunately, Trump is a grass-roots phenomenon. And because that's the case, at this point, the risk is that attacking him too aggressively and overtly will simply strengthen his power base.

that’s exactly the problem, obviously

the reward of “just doing the right thing” (the just thing, the ethical thing, the honest thing, the thing that is best for this country) apparently isn’t as important as courting maga nation (or at the very least not ostracizing them)

Correct. With precious few exceptions, Republicans have put their own prospects ahead of the country’s. Whatever argument there once was about it being “better” to be on the inside and in a position to ameliorate the harm (1) doesn’t seem to have worked out, and (2) in any case is long past its expiration date, as Trump is not presently at the controls.

[jfish26]

This sort of thing…



…is why I’m not all that vexed about the NY stuff going first. It would not surprise me at all if, with the heat turned up by the NY charges, Trump does even dumber/more incriminating stuff on the other open investigations. The sorts of things that get one’s passport pulled, or even put on house arrest pending trial.

[KUTradition]

This sort of thing…



…is why I’m not all that vexed about the NY stuff going first. It would not surprise me at all if, with the heat turned up by the NY charges, Trump does even dumber/more incriminating stuff on the other open investigations. The sorts of things that get one’s passport pulled, or even put on house arrest pending trial.

After his advisers received a subpoena in May demanding the return of the classified records, Trump looked through some of the boxes of government documents in his home out of an apparent desire to keep certain things in his possession, the Post reported, citing people familiar with the investigation.

Investigators also have evidence indicating Trump told others to mislead government officials in early 2022, before the subpoena, when the U.S. National Archives and Records Administration was working to recover documents from Trump’s time as president, the Post reported.

[Shirley]

Asa Hutchinson exhibits that rarest of republican traits, integrity. Would that it were he wasn't on the wrong side on most issues.

Former Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchinson announces 2024 presidential run He says that Trump should drop out of the race given his recent indictment.

...Karl pressed Hutchinson on whether he believes Trump should drop out of the race now that he’s been indicted.

"I do," Hutchinson said, standing by the position he took before Trump was charged. "I mean, first of all, the office is more important than any individual person...

In contrast to GOP presidential candidates and potential candidates, Hutchinson did not blast the indictment as purely political, noting "the grand jury found probable cause and that's the standard for any criminal charges in our society."

"I know there's going to be some that say I should be tougher on the prosecutor, I should be tougher on the unfairness of this. I've expressed my view that I wouldn't bring those charges if I was a prosecutor. But let's let the system work. And what I don't want to do as a leader is undermine everything that is good about America, which is our criminal justice system," he added.

"There are a lot of Republicans attacking that judicial system and that legal system right now," Karl said. "And I'm different," Hutchinson countered.

[...]

[jfish26]

Asa Hutchinson exhibits that rarest of republican traits, integrity. Would that it were he wasn't on the wrong side on most issues.

Former Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchinson announces 2024 presidential run He says that Trump should drop out of the race given his recent indictment.

...Karl pressed Hutchinson on whether he believes Trump should drop out of the race now that he’s been indicted.

"I do," Hutchinson said, standing by the position he took before Trump was charged. "I mean, first of all, the office is more important than any individual person...

In contrast to GOP presidential candidates and potential candidates, Hutchinson did not blast the indictment as purely political, noting "the grand jury found probable cause and that's the standard for any criminal charges in our society."

"I know there's going to be some that say I should be tougher on the prosecutor, I should be tougher on the unfairness of this. I've expressed my view that I wouldn't bring those charges if I was a prosecutor. But let's let the system work. And what I don't want to do as a leader is undermine everything that is good about America, which is our criminal justice system," he added.

"There are a lot of Republicans attacking that judicial system and that legal system right now," Karl said. "And I'm different," Hutchinson countered.

[...]

I'm all for normalizing the ideas Hutchinson is saying he espouses. Those are good things!

But I don't think he has any delusions of being a serious candidate. To DC's well-made point in another thread, this echoes Kasich's cynical parlay of fizzled political prospects into prominent "token right winger on centrist/left-leaning panels" roles.

[DCHawk1]

Yeah. I'm not sure that "I think the front-runner (by a significant margin) should drop out of the race that I too am running in" = integrity.