Another mass shooting

[randylahey]

So, if access to guns was more limited, black murder rates would not go down.

That's quite a hypothesis. What's the data or evidence supporting it?

They have the same access to guns as other races. But somehow commit more murder than all other groups combined. Despite being outnumbered about 9-1

You're off on a tangent again. Focus. Let's try multiple choice:

1. If access to guns was more limited, the black murder rate would:

(a) go up
(b) stay the same
(c) go down

2. If access to guns was more limited, the murder rate (regardless of demographic factors) would:

(a) go up
(b) stay the same
(c) go down

inner city gun violence is done with no regard to murder laws or gun laws. Guns are already more restricted in big cities, yet they still have higher rates of gun violence. A lot of it is done by illegally purchased guns or unregistered guns.

They have the same legal access to guns in those cities as other demographics, yet commit far more gun violence

[jfish26]

one party is trying to limit gun deaths

what’s the other party doing?

Attempting Olympic-level mental gymnastics to take the gun out of "gun violence problem."

[randylahey]

one party is trying to limit gun deaths

what’s the other party doing?

I guess mao and hitler were too then. They preached the same rhetoric of gun control. And then genocide tyranny and total control followed oops

[jfish26]

They have the same access to guns as other races. But somehow commit more murder than all other groups combined. Despite being outnumbered about 9-1

You're off on a tangent again. Focus. Let's try multiple choice:

1. If access to guns was more limited, the black murder rate would:

(a) go up
(b) stay the same
(c) go down

2. If access to guns was more limited, the murder rate (regardless of demographic factors) would:

(a) go up
(b) stay the same
(c) go down

inner city gun violence is done with no regard to murder laws or gun laws. Guns are already more restricted in big cities, yet they still have higher rates of gun violence. A lot of it is done by illegally purchased guns or unregistered guns.

They have the same legal access to guns in those cities as other demographics, yet commit far more gun violence

You're drawing pictures on the scantron again.

[randylahey]

one party is trying to limit gun deaths

what’s the other party doing?

Neither party is pro gun violence.

But one is pro gun control, and one is pro 2a

[KUTradition]

you really struggle at answering the most basic of questions

[randylahey]

One party is attacking liberties and one is preserving it

Nobody likes violence in general

[KUTradition]

still failing/flailing

[jfish26]

one party is trying to limit gun deaths

what’s the other party doing?

Neither party is pro gun violence.

But one is pro gun control, and one is pro 2a

But this is the whole issue, very neatly wrapped in a bow. You're not offering very precise terms, but I'm guessing that the majority of the country is probably describable as "pro gun control" AND "pro 2a".

[randylahey]

And then, analyze the data on who is committing most of those murders. You won't like what you find though. There is one demographic in this country, found in both red and blue states, that makes up about 1/10 of the population but commits over 1/2 the murders....

Please do share your thoughts on why the black crime rate is so much higher.

Analyzing this would give some actual insight into what the actual causes of gun violence are. Anyone care to share their thoughts??

Black Americans do not have more access to guns that others

[jfish26]

One party is attacking liberties and one is preserving it

Nobody likes violence in general

But here we're back to the central "perspective" of yours with which I take issue.

You believe that the individual personal liberty to own/use assault rifles is worth at least its present cost (in blood and otherwise).

I do not.

[jfish26]

And then, analyze the data on who is committing most of those murders. You won't like what you find though. There is one demographic in this country, found in both red and blue states, that makes up about 1/10 of the population but commits over 1/2 the murders....

Please do share your thoughts on why the black crime rate is so much higher.

Analyzing this would give some actual insight into what the actual causes of gun violence are. Anyone care to share their thoughts??

Black Americans do not have more access to guns that others

To quote you, "you won't like what you find though."

[randylahey]

Well as far as I know, black Americans actually have less access to guns, but commit gun violence at a much higher rate. Statistically they have less income to spend purchasing firearms, and live urban areas which have higher levels of gun restrictions. Gun control in America itself has racist roots, aimed at keeping guns out of the hands of black Americans going back hundreds of years. So that blows that theory out of the water

[randylahey]

One party is attacking liberties and one is preserving it

Nobody likes violence in general

But here we're back to the central "perspective" of yours with which I take issue.

You believe that the individual personal liberty to own/use assault rifles is worth at least its present cost (in blood and otherwise).

I do not.

No I dont. Id prefer there is no gun violence. But i realize that people don't always follow laws, sacfricing the liberty of law abiding citizens won't change that

[jfish26]

One party is attacking liberties and one is preserving it

Nobody likes violence in general

But here we're back to the central "perspective" of yours with which I take issue.

You believe that the individual personal liberty to own/use assault rifles is worth at least its present cost (in blood and otherwise).

I do not.

No I dont. Id prefer there is no gun violence. But i realize that people don't always follow laws, sacfricing the liberty of law abiding citizens won't change that

But of course this is absurd.

There is absolutely zero reason - zero evidence, zero data, zero logic, zero common sense - to think that gun violence would NOT go down if access to guns was more limited than it is now. There is plenty of data supporting the notion that tougher gun laws result in less gun violence.

It's just silly to think, or pretend to think, otherwise.

[randylahey]

But here we're back to the central "perspective" of yours with which I take issue.

You believe that the individual personal liberty to own/use assault rifles is worth at least its present cost (in blood and otherwise).

I do not.

No I dont. Id prefer there is no gun violence. But i realize that people don't always follow laws, sacfricing the liberty of law abiding citizens won't change that

But of course this is absurd.

There is absolutely zero reason - zero evidence, zero data, zero logic, zero common sense - to think that gun violence would NOT go down if access to guns was more limited than it is now. There is plenty of data supporting the notion that tougher gun laws result in less gun violence.

It's just silly to think, or pretend to think, otherwise.

Ok so explain Chicago then, or new York. Or any other city with tougher than average gun laws but higher than average homicide rates

[KUTradition]

the argument that people are still going to break the law, in support of the notion that said laws shouldn’t exist, is high-larious

[jfish26]

No I dont. Id prefer there is no gun violence. But i realize that people don't always follow laws, sacfricing the liberty of law abiding citizens won't change that

But of course this is absurd.

There is absolutely zero reason - zero evidence, zero data, zero logic, zero common sense - to think that gun violence would NOT go down if access to guns was more limited than it is now. There is plenty of data supporting the notion that tougher gun laws result in less gun violence.

It's just silly to think, or pretend to think, otherwise.

Ok so explain Chicago then, or new York. Or any other city with tougher than average gun laws but higher than average homicide rates

As you appropriately pointed out, there are confounding factors there, and nobody is saying tougher gun laws would bring homicide rates to zero anywhere among any group.

But, as you know, mass shootings - particularly school shootings and the like - are their own unique animal.

Yes or no: the homicide rate (death by way of mass shootings (particularly school shootings and the like)) would be at least as high as it is today, if assault weapons were less accessible.

Yes or no.

[randylahey]

But of course this is absurd.

There is absolutely zero reason - zero evidence, zero data, zero logic, zero common sense - to think that gun violence would NOT go down if access to guns was more limited than it is now. There is plenty of data supporting the notion that tougher gun laws result in less gun violence.

It's just silly to think, or pretend to think, otherwise.

Ok so explain Chicago then, or new York. Or any other city with tougher than average gun laws but higher than average homicide rates

As you appropriately pointed out, there are confounding factors there, and nobody is saying tougher gun laws would bring homicide rates to zero anywhere among any group.

But, as you know, mass shootings - particularly school shootings and the like - are their own unique animal.

Yes or no: the homicide rate (death by way of mass shootings (particularly school shootings and the like)) would be at least as high as it is today, if assault weapons were less accessible.

Yes or no.

So its not the guns? Its compounding factors?

[randylahey]

Mass shootings make up a ridiculously low percentage of gun deaths. And are committed by a ridiculously low percentage of gun owners. And is given a ridiculously high percentage of attention by the media, driven by a political agenda. Thats the part we leave out in this conversation