Another mass shooting

Ugh.
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randylahey
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Re: Another mass shooting

Post by randylahey »

jfish26 wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:35 am
randylahey wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:25 am
jfish26 wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:15 am

So, if access to guns was more limited, black murder rates would not go down.

That's quite a hypothesis. What's the data or evidence supporting it?
They have the same access to guns as other races. But somehow commit more murder than all other groups combined. Despite being outnumbered about 9-1
You're off on a tangent again. Focus. Let's try multiple choice:

1. If access to guns was more limited, the black murder rate would:

(a) go up
(b) stay the same
(c) go down

2. If access to guns was more limited, the murder rate (regardless of demographic factors) would:

(a) go up
(b) stay the same
(c) go down
inner city gun violence is done with no regard to murder laws or gun laws. Guns are already more restricted in big cities, yet they still have higher rates of gun violence. A lot of it is done by illegally purchased guns or unregistered guns.

They have the same legal access to guns in those cities as other demographics, yet commit far more gun violence
jfish26
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Re: Another mass shooting

Post by jfish26 »

KUTradition wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:38 am one party is trying to limit gun deaths

what’s the other party doing?
Attempting Olympic-level mental gymnastics to take the gun out of "gun violence problem."
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randylahey
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Re: Another mass shooting

Post by randylahey »

KUTradition wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:38 am one party is trying to limit gun deaths

what’s the other party doing?
I guess mao and hitler were too then. They preached the same rhetoric of gun control. And then genocide tyranny and total control followed oops
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Re: Another mass shooting

Post by jfish26 »

randylahey wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:40 am
jfish26 wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:35 am
randylahey wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:25 am

They have the same access to guns as other races. But somehow commit more murder than all other groups combined. Despite being outnumbered about 9-1
You're off on a tangent again. Focus. Let's try multiple choice:

1. If access to guns was more limited, the black murder rate would:

(a) go up
(b) stay the same
(c) go down

2. If access to guns was more limited, the murder rate (regardless of demographic factors) would:

(a) go up
(b) stay the same
(c) go down
inner city gun violence is done with no regard to murder laws or gun laws. Guns are already more restricted in big cities, yet they still have higher rates of gun violence. A lot of it is done by illegally purchased guns or unregistered guns.

They have the same legal access to guns in those cities as other demographics, yet commit far more gun violence
You're drawing pictures on the scantron again.
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randylahey
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Re: Another mass shooting

Post by randylahey »

KUTradition wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:38 am one party is trying to limit gun deaths

what’s the other party doing?
Neither party is pro gun violence.

But one is pro gun control, and one is pro 2a
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KUTradition
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Re: Another mass shooting

Post by KUTradition »

you really struggle at answering the most basic of questions
Have we fallen into a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is inferior or detrimental, as though having lost the will or the vision to demand that which is good?
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randylahey
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Re: Another mass shooting

Post by randylahey »

One party is attacking liberties and one is preserving it

Nobody likes violence in general
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KUTradition
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Re: Another mass shooting

Post by KUTradition »

still failing/flailing
Have we fallen into a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is inferior or detrimental, as though having lost the will or the vision to demand that which is good?
jfish26
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Re: Another mass shooting

Post by jfish26 »

randylahey wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:44 am
KUTradition wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:38 am one party is trying to limit gun deaths

what’s the other party doing?
Neither party is pro gun violence.

But one is pro gun control, and one is pro 2a
But this is the whole issue, very neatly wrapped in a bow. You're not offering very precise terms, but I'm guessing that the majority of the country is probably describable as "pro gun control" AND "pro 2a".
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randylahey
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Re: Another mass shooting

Post by randylahey »

jfish26 wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:09 am
randylahey wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:59 am And then, analyze the data on who is committing most of those murders. You won't like what you find though. There is one demographic in this country, found in both red and blue states, that makes up about 1/10 of the population but commits over 1/2 the murders....
Please do share your thoughts on why the black crime rate is so much higher.
Analyzing this would give some actual insight into what the actual causes of gun violence are. Anyone care to share their thoughts??

Black Americans do not have more access to guns that others
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Re: Another mass shooting

Post by jfish26 »

randylahey wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:49 am One party is attacking liberties and one is preserving it

Nobody likes violence in general
But here we're back to the central "perspective" of yours with which I take issue.

You believe that the individual personal liberty to own/use assault rifles is worth at least its present cost (in blood and otherwise).

I do not.
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Re: Another mass shooting

Post by jfish26 »

randylahey wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:59 am
jfish26 wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:09 am
randylahey wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:59 am And then, analyze the data on who is committing most of those murders. You won't like what you find though. There is one demographic in this country, found in both red and blue states, that makes up about 1/10 of the population but commits over 1/2 the murders....
Please do share your thoughts on why the black crime rate is so much higher.
Analyzing this would give some actual insight into what the actual causes of gun violence are. Anyone care to share their thoughts??

Black Americans do not have more access to guns that others
To quote you, "you won't like what you find though."
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randylahey
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Re: Another mass shooting

Post by randylahey »

Well as far as I know, black Americans actually have less access to guns, but commit gun violence at a much higher rate. Statistically they have less income to spend purchasing firearms, and live urban areas which have higher levels of gun restrictions. Gun control in America itself has racist roots, aimed at keeping guns out of the hands of black Americans going back hundreds of years. So that blows that theory out of the water
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randylahey
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Re: Another mass shooting

Post by randylahey »

jfish26 wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:04 pm
randylahey wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:49 am One party is attacking liberties and one is preserving it

Nobody likes violence in general
But here we're back to the central "perspective" of yours with which I take issue.

You believe that the individual personal liberty to own/use assault rifles is worth at least its present cost (in blood and otherwise).

I do not.
No I dont. Id prefer there is no gun violence. But i realize that people don't always follow laws, sacfricing the liberty of law abiding citizens won't change that
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Re: Another mass shooting

Post by jfish26 »

randylahey wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:28 pm
jfish26 wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:04 pm
randylahey wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:49 am One party is attacking liberties and one is preserving it

Nobody likes violence in general
But here we're back to the central "perspective" of yours with which I take issue.

You believe that the individual personal liberty to own/use assault rifles is worth at least its present cost (in blood and otherwise).

I do not.
No I dont. Id prefer there is no gun violence. But i realize that people don't always follow laws, sacfricing the liberty of law abiding citizens won't change that
But of course this is absurd.

There is absolutely zero reason - zero evidence, zero data, zero logic, zero common sense - to think that gun violence would NOT go down if access to guns was more limited than it is now. There is plenty of data supporting the notion that tougher gun laws result in less gun violence.

It's just silly to think, or pretend to think, otherwise.
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randylahey
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Re: Another mass shooting

Post by randylahey »

jfish26 wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:38 pm
randylahey wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:28 pm
jfish26 wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:04 pm

But here we're back to the central "perspective" of yours with which I take issue.

You believe that the individual personal liberty to own/use assault rifles is worth at least its present cost (in blood and otherwise).

I do not.
No I dont. Id prefer there is no gun violence. But i realize that people don't always follow laws, sacfricing the liberty of law abiding citizens won't change that
But of course this is absurd.

There is absolutely zero reason - zero evidence, zero data, zero logic, zero common sense - to think that gun violence would NOT go down if access to guns was more limited than it is now. There is plenty of data supporting the notion that tougher gun laws result in less gun violence.

It's just silly to think, or pretend to think, otherwise.
Ok so explain Chicago then, or new York. Or any other city with tougher than average gun laws but higher than average homicide rates
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KUTradition
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Re: Another mass shooting

Post by KUTradition »

the argument that people are still going to break the law, in support of the notion that said laws shouldn’t exist, is high-larious
Have we fallen into a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is inferior or detrimental, as though having lost the will or the vision to demand that which is good?
jfish26
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Re: Another mass shooting

Post by jfish26 »

randylahey wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:42 pm
jfish26 wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:38 pm
randylahey wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:28 pm

No I dont. Id prefer there is no gun violence. But i realize that people don't always follow laws, sacfricing the liberty of law abiding citizens won't change that
But of course this is absurd.

There is absolutely zero reason - zero evidence, zero data, zero logic, zero common sense - to think that gun violence would NOT go down if access to guns was more limited than it is now. There is plenty of data supporting the notion that tougher gun laws result in less gun violence.

It's just silly to think, or pretend to think, otherwise.
Ok so explain Chicago then, or new York. Or any other city with tougher than average gun laws but higher than average homicide rates
As you appropriately pointed out, there are confounding factors there, and nobody is saying tougher gun laws would bring homicide rates to zero anywhere among any group.

But, as you know, mass shootings - particularly school shootings and the like - are their own unique animal.

Yes or no: the homicide rate (death by way of mass shootings (particularly school shootings and the like)) would be at least as high as it is today, if assault weapons were less accessible.

Yes or no.
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randylahey
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Re: Another mass shooting

Post by randylahey »

jfish26 wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:48 pm
randylahey wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:42 pm
jfish26 wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:38 pm

But of course this is absurd.

There is absolutely zero reason - zero evidence, zero data, zero logic, zero common sense - to think that gun violence would NOT go down if access to guns was more limited than it is now. There is plenty of data supporting the notion that tougher gun laws result in less gun violence.

It's just silly to think, or pretend to think, otherwise.
Ok so explain Chicago then, or new York. Or any other city with tougher than average gun laws but higher than average homicide rates
As you appropriately pointed out, there are confounding factors there, and nobody is saying tougher gun laws would bring homicide rates to zero anywhere among any group.

But, as you know, mass shootings - particularly school shootings and the like - are their own unique animal.

Yes or no: the homicide rate (death by way of mass shootings (particularly school shootings and the like)) would be at least as high as it is today, if assault weapons were less accessible.

Yes or no.
So its not the guns? Its compounding factors?
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randylahey
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Re: Another mass shooting

Post by randylahey »

Mass shootings make up a ridiculously low percentage of gun deaths. And are committed by a ridiculously low percentage of gun owners. And is given a ridiculously high percentage of attention by the media, driven by a political agenda. Thats the part we leave out in this conversation
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