2023 Transfer Portal and NBA Declarations

[pdub]

I know it’s difficult for some to understand as they think money == happiness but I prefer players playing at Kansas for the college experience, the environment to improve, the history of the program, the drive of competition and the love of the sport. College should be where you learn to be better at something you want to pursue as a career, not a career.

And this type of sport exists everywhere already. People pay to play in sports throughout their entire lives because they value a number of those things above. The ideal would be to find the best players who want a free ride to school along with all the perks that come with being a college athlete.

And I don’t ( or didn’t bc now it’s firmly accelerating to professional sports for dudes under 26 ) care if the very best players at this age decide not to play college. In fact I’d prefer they did not.

Those things are LOL to those arguing and they value money over that. There’s a large disconnect there.

[jfish26]

ive made my position, opinion, and arguments fairly clear over the last yesr or 2. Im not going g to rehash the entire argument.

Thanks for the condescending vocabulary lesson though. Not sure i could've made it the rest of the day without the refresher.

Ok. You conflated the two things, which aren’t the same things. And mischaracterizing points (creating straw men) happens a fair amount around here. So I spelled things out so that it’s right there in plain text. No offense was meant.

good lord. I didnt conflate anything, and I'm well aware of the definition of the words.

I know I'm not a lawyer but I do speak English. Jesus Cristo.

Ok. Like I said, no offense was meant and not looking for beef.

[jfish26]

I know it’s difficult for some to understand as they think money == happiness but I prefer players playing at Kansas for the college experience, the environment to improve, the history of the program, the drive of competition and the love of the sport. College should be where you learn to be better at something you want to pursue as a career, not a career.

And this type of sport exists everywhere already. People pay to play in sports throughout their entire lives because they value a number of those things above. The ideal would be to find the best players who want a free ride to school along with all the perks that come with being a college athlete.

And I don’t ( or didn’t bc now it’s firmly accelerating to professional sports for dudes under 26 ) care if the very best players at this age decide not to play college. In fact I’d prefer they did not.

Those things are LOL to those arguing and they value money over that. There’s a large disconnect there.

You didn’t need that last line; I don’t have any issue with the substance of what you’re saying. I think you’re being genuine. And I understand what you mean - it was fun to have KU basketball players as classmates, and see them in libraries, and at bars/parties, and so on.

I don’t value “money” over any of that.

What I do value over that is college basketball being at least as prominent as it is now, and KU being awesome at it. And I do feel, strongly, that going down a path of “love of the game” amateurism is likely to lead to a talent drain that results in the de-emphasis of the sport.

But I don’t think the sentiment behind what you’re saying is bad or wrong.

[pdub]

De emphasis is good with me.
Technology is far enough along that my nephews ( middle school ) hockey games are streamed on Twitch in HD. I can watch half of my local high school teams basketball games on the local station.

College basketball would be just fine without the top talent. And KU would still be an excellent program.

BWW Chad means nothing to me.

[KUTradition]

i personally agree that the product would be “fine” without the top talent, and don’t really like the current environment where kids are choosing schools based on money rather than genuine interest in the school/program/coach

that said, i also think it’s unfair that any other student has freedoms to make money that athletes do not. but, as a grad student i had opportunities that undergraduates did not. i don’t know the right answer, or that there is a right answer…

some kids have always been getting paid, in one way or another. so, i guess for me, so long as all of the payments are now transparent and above board, then i’ll reluctantly concede that this is a better situation than it used to be

[ousdahl]

“Transparent and above bored” is what I find myself referring back to.

We all like the taste of sausage. This debate seems less about how it tastes, and more about some folks fussing about the sausage ingredients now being listed on the packaging*

And “de-emphasis” and “without the top talent,” taken to some logical end, seems like it could result in men’s basketball games being played in front of an Allen Fieldhouse crowd of like 300 people.


*with the ingredients being listed, of course, as part of some sweeping Supreme Court decision that required sausage makers to actually acknowledge how it’s made, rather than just trying to suffice ingredient lists by printing “for the love of the bratwurst” on the package…

[KUTradition]

i don’t think the Phog woulda been less full without the likes of Wiggins and Embiid

BIFM, Devote, DMac, Och, JW, and others would still be on campus, imo

edit: the “top talent” not playing college ball would be, what, the 20 best players out of high school? maaaaybe the top 50? the other side of this is, where are these kids playing if not in college…d-league? over seas? 1) how many spots outside of the NBA would legitimately be available annually, and 2) how many high school graduates would be comfortable in an overseas situation?

[pdub]

There is another thread on this bored talking about the fallacy of not having rules if people are just going to break them.

It was against the rules. It should have been enforced equally.
And the NCAA should have prioritized how to funnel money back to the universities rather than bloating their organization.

"And “de-emphasis” and “without the top talent,” taken to some logical end, seems like it could result in men’s basketball games being played in front of an Allen Fieldhouse crowd of like 300 people."

And this is just so dumb.
I went to a high school football game where players weren't being paid and there were 10,000 people there.

[KUTradition]

It was against the rules. It should have been enforced equally.
And the NCAA should have prioritized how to funnel money back to the universities rather than bloating their organization.

absolutely

[pdub]

i don’t think the Phog woulda been less full without the likes of Wiggins and Embiid

BIFM, Devote, DMac, Och, JW, and others would still be on campus, imo

edit: the “top talent” not playing college ball would be, what, the 20 best players out of high school? maaaaybe the top 50? the other side of this is, where are these kids playing if not in college…d-league? over seas? 1) how many spots outside of the NBA would legitimately be available annually, and 2) how many high school graduates would be comfortable in an overseas situation?

I would think the G League would become more profitable if college decided to flush some of the money of it's system.

Despite JFish's analogy to slavery, these players are not being forced into playing in college.

[jfish26]

i don’t think the Phog woulda been less full without the likes of Wiggins and Embiid

BIFM, Devote, DMac, Och, JW, and others would still be on campus, imo

edit: the “top talent” not playing college ball would be, what, the 20 best players out of high school? maaaaybe the top 50? the other side of this is, where are these kids playing if not in college…d-league? over seas? 1) how many spots outside of the NBA would legitimately be available annually, and 2) how many high school graduates would be comfortable in an overseas situation?

My concern - and absolutely I acknowledge the problems with slippery slope arguments - would be that it's not as simple as just assuming that college basketball would "keep" (for example) 50% of the top 20, 75% of 21-50 and >90% of the rest. My concern would be that at some point you'd reach a critical mass, where the non-elite prospects ALSO find somewhere to play to make money.

There's a reasonable case to be made that this is not what would happen. That case would say that non-elite prospects would BENEFIT from (and WELCOME) the "one and done" types not taking up minutes and oxygen at the college level.

[TDub]

i don’t think the Phog woulda been less full without the likes of Wiggins and Embiid

BIFM, Devote, DMac, Och, JW, and others would still be on campus, imo

edit: the “top talent” not playing college ball would be, what, the 20 best players out of high school? maaaaybe the top 50? the other side of this is, where are these kids playing if not in college…d-league? over seas? 1) how many spots outside of the NBA would legitimately be available annually, and 2) how many high school graduates would be comfortable in an overseas situation?

I would think the G League would become more profitable if college decided to flush some of the money of it's system.

Despite JFish's analogy to slavery, these players are not being forced into playing in college.

nor are they not being compensated...even before the free agency market.

[pdub]

sLaVEs! InDEnTURed seRVanTS!!!
I uNDerSTanD thEIR pLIght bECauSE i wAS ONcE BLue COllAR aND NoW AM PrivilEGEd!

Hold please while I pull up my 60k vehicle, smoking stogies, in a reserved parking spot, so I can complain about how shitty this airport's private lounges can be.

OK iM baCK!
thINk of THe ATHleTES!

[ousdahl]

And this is just so dumb.
I went to a high school football game where players weren't being paid and there were 10,000 people there.

You sure?

[pdub]

Yes.
It was Hoover vs Vestavia Hills.
The stadium held over 10,000 people and it was full.

[KUTradition]

My concern would be that at some point you'd reach a critical mass, where the non-elite prospects ALSO find somewhere to play to make money.

but where? that was one of my points

there are limited spots in the g-league. a quick search indicates that ~100 new players get signed to the g-league annually (split between “failed” nba guys, college players, hs grads, and foreign players)

international leagues, aside from being 18-19 and away from friends and family, have their own caveats (some limit the total number of US players on rosters)

the idea that other options will just magically appear is just pure speculation. the g-league has higher competition than college, obviously, but has shit exposure, largely shit venues, and (perhaps most importantly) near zero access to top flight facilities, trainers, nutritionists, etc.

[KUTradition]

I would think the G League would become more profitable if college decided to flush some of the money of it's system.

where’s the incentive? how and why would this happen?

[pdub]

I'd imagine having the talented elite guys that the Chad BWW's of the world read about on twitter a couple times might build a bigger base over time.

Free market and all that.

If you mean incentive for the NCAA?
Well, they'd have to be even more dedicated to establishing amateur sports to it's foundation rather than running as a business whose main intention is to grow.

[KUTradition]

i found this interesting:

https://globalsportmatters.com/business ... countries/

[jfish26]

I'd imagine having the talented elite guys that the Chad BWW's of the world read about on twitter a couple times might build a bigger base over time.

Free market and all that.

If you mean incentive for the NCAA?
Well, they'd have to be even more dedicated to establishing amateur sports to it's foundation rather than running as a business whose main intention is to grow.

I think the tough part there is the "they."