Ron desantis

[jfish26]

Biden certainly isn’t infallible, and I wouldn’t move the bar for heroicism beneath him, either.

But as I’ve said elsewhere, I think he’s been very successful - B+ at worst - in doing what he promised (being to restore normalcy and confidence in the quiet, boring work of governing, while mending our international relationships and serving as a bulwark against the leftiest elements of the party).

[twocoach]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... e-epiphany

this Joe Biden? the one who voted against gay marriage previously?

also...again its not relevant to the discussion we were having. But you do you.

Which does nothing to change the fact that even now in 2023, republicans prove every day that there is no already-disadvantaged strata of society, no minority, no "other", be they gay, trans, Jew, Latino, Muslim, female, etc., etc., etc., that they aren't more than willing to objectify and attempt to make their already difficult lives harder, if it will gain them traction with aggrieved white bigots and benefit the already filthy rich members of our society.

Aren't we proud?

What a fucking country!

But, then again, Joe is old.

I mustve missed the part where I was promoting a current republican option.

This is why I get so frustrated with any of this stuff. Nobody can say anything remotely negative about anybody on your team (applies to both teams) without everybody popping up saying yea..well they do this, they did this, you want those guys?


No. No I don't. But I also think it's not unreasonable to point out that Biden is not the infallible, heroic figure that many of you are trying to will him to be.


also, thisnall stemmed from you asking me if not Joe then who? to which I answered i dont know is have to do more research but, at a minimum Pete would be better.....somehow that turned into.......this wonderful string of posts.



Refer back to my previous comments about zsn. rinse and repeat.

Jor Biden has been in politics long enough now that his opinion on a lot of things has shifted. Saying "well, once upon a time he voted for/against something that he's now against/for" is pointless.
Things change over time as the public interest changes. I only care about how someone is going to vote NOW, not how they voted years ago.

[TDub]

oh goody another country heard from



here comes team blue running along to tell me I can't have an independent opinion.


Jesus christ. impossible. done with this thread too.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

In a case of whataboutisms. My guess is the majority of people ridiculing Biden on flipping regarding gay marriage don't know (or at least are ignoring) Mr. Ronald McDonald John Trump has himself flipped on gay marriage.

[Sparko]

Some folks knock everyone without a fair look at how things stand today. Biden moved on with the consensus and has done a remarkable job leading us out of the abyss. I am impressed.

[KUTradition]

i don’t like Biden’s age, or his apparent slippage in mental acuity

i don’t like the Afghan debacle

i really don’t like that he’s continued offering fossil fuel leases (there’s already ample unused leases without new ones being made available)

but, i’m impressed that even with the likes of manchin & sinema, and the crazies in the House, that he’s been able to get some massive legislative priorities (campaign promises) done. those are pretty big and significant feathers in his cap

i’d still definitely prefer someone like Buttigieg (definitely NOT Kamala), but there are zero formal pub candidates that i’d choose over Biden at this point. tim scott comes across as fake, and all the others seem to have embraced the culture wars as their primary platform

Biden is still the most centrist of all the candidates that have announced

[jfish26]

i don’t like Biden’s age, or his apparent slippage in mental acuity

i don’t like the Afghan debacle

i really don’t like that he’s continued offering fossil fuel leases (there’s already ample unused leases without new ones being made available)

but, i’m impressed that even with the likes of manchin & sinema, and the crazies in the House, that he’s been able to get some massive legislative priorities (campaign promises) done. those are pretty big and significant feathers in his cap

i’d still definitely prefer someone like Buttigieg (definitely NOT Kamala), but there are zero formal pub candidates that i’d choose over Biden at this point. tim scott comes across as fake, and all the others seem to have embraced the culture wars as their primary platform

Biden is still the most centrist of all the candidates that have announced

I think there are a couple sane Rs laying in the weeds until it's safe to come out...be that in the 2024 race (if Trump comes off the board in time), or the 2028 race.

[japhy]

i don’t like Biden’s age, or his apparent slippage in mental acuity

i don’t like the Afghan debacle

i really don’t like that he’s continued offering fossil fuel leases (there’s already ample unused leases without new ones being made available)

but, i’m impressed that even with the likes of manchin & sinema, and the crazies in the House, that he’s been able to get some massive legislative priorities (campaign promises) done. those are pretty big and significant feathers in his cap

i’d still definitely prefer someone like Buttigieg (definitely NOT Kamala), but there are zero formal pub candidates that i’d choose over Biden at this point. tim scott comes across as fake, and all the others seem to have embraced the culture wars as their primary platform

Biden is still the most centrist of all the candidates that have announced

I think there are a couple sane Rs laying in the weeds until it's safe to come out...be that in the 2024 race (if Trump comes off the board in time), or the 2028 race.

What makes you think trump won't run in 2028 as well?

I think trump has discovered the ultimate grift. His true calling. He will be "running for office" in some form from now until the day he dies....2026, 2028, 2030, 2032.... Collecting money from the rubes with minimal outlay on his part. So much more profitable than real estate with gold leaf toilets and far less liability. He has found his groove and he is going to milk it until he can't. Conservatives lost the Republican party to him and they may never get it back. They should throw in the towel and start a new party. Maybe nominate Liz Cheney for their presidential candidate.

[jfish26]

i don’t like Biden’s age, or his apparent slippage in mental acuity

i don’t like the Afghan debacle

i really don’t like that he’s continued offering fossil fuel leases (there’s already ample unused leases without new ones being made available)

but, i’m impressed that even with the likes of manchin & sinema, and the crazies in the House, that he’s been able to get some massive legislative priorities (campaign promises) done. those are pretty big and significant feathers in his cap

i’d still definitely prefer someone like Buttigieg (definitely NOT Kamala), but there are zero formal pub candidates that i’d choose over Biden at this point. tim scott comes across as fake, and all the others seem to have embraced the culture wars as their primary platform

Biden is still the most centrist of all the candidates that have announced

I think there are a couple sane Rs laying in the weeds until it's safe to come out...be that in the 2024 race (if Trump comes off the board in time), or the 2028 race.

What makes you think trump won't run in 2028 as well?

I think trump has discovered the ultimate grift. His true calling. He will be "running for office" in some form from now until the day he dies....2026, 2028, 2030, 2032.... Collecting money from the rubes with minimal outlay on his part. So much more profitable than real estate with gold leaf toilets and far less liability. He has found his groove and he is going to milk it until he can't. Conservatives lost the Republican party to him and they may never get it back. They should throw in the towel and start a new party. Maybe nominate Liz Cheney for their presidential candidate.

How's the sports saying go? Father Time is undefeated.

(I also think the odds are now strong that the majority of Trump's remaining days will be spent in prison or in a country that doesn't extradite.)

[Shirley]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... e-epiphany

this Joe Biden? the one who voted against gay marriage previously?

also...again its not relevant to the discussion we were having. But you do you.

Which does nothing to change the fact that even now in 2023, republicans prove every day that there is no already-disadvantaged strata of society, no minority, no "other", be they gay, trans, Jew, Latino, Muslim, female, etc., etc., etc., that they aren't more than willing to objectify and attempt to make their already difficult lives harder, if it will gain them traction with aggrieved white bigots and benefit the already filthy rich members of our society.

Aren't we proud?

What a fucking country!

But, then again, Joe is old.

I mustve missed the part where I was promoting a current republican option.

This is why I get so frustrated with any of this stuff. Nobody can say anything remotely negative about anybody on your team (applies to both teams) without everybody popping up saying yea..well they do this, they did this, you want those guys?


No. No I don't. But I also think it's not unreasonable to point out that Biden is not the infallible, heroic figure that many of you are trying to will him to be.


also, thisnall stemmed from you asking me if not Joe then who? to which I answered i dont know is have to do more research but, at a minimum Pete would be better.....somehow that turned into.......this wonderful string of posts.



Refer back to my previous comments about zsn. rinse and repeat.

Edited to add: There have been a plethora of posts added to this thread while I was composing this.

Dude, sorry, didn't intend to make you feel that way. Don't go.

My excuse: For weeks I've watched you, Mji, and Trad criticize Biden, (which you're perfectly entitled to do), with nearly no specifics other than he's old, or some other negative generality. And after seeing you refer to Biden twice the other day with the same adjective but no specific issues, again, I asked you what you didn't like about him, and got more of the same.

(For the record, I don't expect you to do any "research" and get back to me. But you've watched him for almost two years, and I don't think, in the interests of discussion, it's unreal to expect you to offer more than that. That being said, you don't owe me anything.)

It's not your fault that, at the time I read your post, it struck me as a new iteration of republicans pulling the, "yeah, but West Virginia Democratic Senator Robert Byrd was a member of the KKK back in the '40s and '50s" card, when you point out their racism and support for white supremacy. That is...here was Biden doing the right thing, and still getting shit for it.

Please forgive me.

Musings:

Biden wasn't my first choice in 2020, but then, I didn't really have a "first" choice, I couldn't get excited about any of them*. But after coming in a distant 4th to Sanders, Pete, Warren, &/or Klobachar in the Iowa and New Hampshire primaries and a distant 2nd to Bernie in Nevada, the way he recovered and won SC with 49% and Alabama with 63%, (Bernie was 2nd with only 17%), it was obvious that Biden had solidified the base, and imo was the only one of the 5 top candidates I had any faith could beat Trump. And, if I've learned anything after being a close observer and voter for several decades, winning matters.

*Sanders and Warren are too far left to win the general election. Libs can wish it weren't so, but imo, republicans drool at the opportunity to turn on their considerable propaganda machine and define both of them for suburban white housewives. (Although the end of Roe probably mitigates that, some.) Pete's gay, (not that there's anything wrong with that), and Klobachar has next to no "it" factor, no matter how reasonable and "centrist" her ideas might be.

Speaking of "centrist", is there any republican who is as willing to reach across the isle and try to reach bipartisan agreements than Biden? Name one. It's actually often one of Biden's faults...

Full disclosure: Kamala, sadly, has next to no "it" factor, either. But if Biden isn't the candidate in '24, imo it will take a great deal of skill for any other democrat to displace Kamala as the candidate [in '24, &/or '28], without paying a price with that most reliable demographic of the democratic base, Black women. Where's my popcorn?

I wish Joe were younger, too. The excitement that young guys like JFK and Obama bring to the office and thereby the nation, can't be ignored. Anyone who has watched Biden for decades knows that his halting speech pattern due to his stutter has always been there. I can recall thinking he must be joking when Biden ran for the '88 nomination, and a big part of that was his lack of eloquence. It comes as no surprise that his stutter would worsen as he ages. Considering what he's accomplished despite such narrow margins in congress and "democrats" like Sinema and Manchin, and the existential threat Trump, his cult, and republicans pose to our country, I'm not ready to change horses until someone offers a democratic alternative with similar priorities, who can WIN.

The penalty for losing, is too high.

[jfish26]

As I've said a lot of times: I'd love to have a real choice at the ballot box. But, absent the adoption of ranked-choice voting, it's hard to see it happening for a while.

Because right now, I'm a single-issue voter, that issue being democracy.

And after that, I'll be a single-issue voter, that issue being science.

Right now, the GOP is anti-both (in that it is anti-truth).

[Sparko]

I thought Gutter's denouncement of Biden for Afghanistan telling. Trump had drawn down the strength so much there that withdrawal was the least worst option. Despite some issues, the airlift out was pretty sound. With what is going on with Iran, hard to say what the plans were or are. But we are out, and that is a good thing. The leadership to try. And I am with Fish on democracy. Who knew the descent of the GOP would go to this extent--and palling around with Russia.

[jfish26]

I thought Gutter's denouncement of Biden for Afghanistan telling. Trump had drawn down the strength so much there that withdrawal was the least worst option. Despite some issues, the airlift out was pretty sound. With what is going on with Iran, hard to say what the plans were or are. But we are out, and that is a good thing. The leadership to try. And I am with Fish on democracy. Who knew the descent of the GOP would go to this extent--and palling around with Russia.

Afghanistan is an example of a number of things, including how there's an entire chapter of the R playbook on how to fashion time bombs to go off on political opponents' watches (and then blame the explosion on those opponents, not the bomb-makers).

[zsn]

Fish FTW!!

I’m reminded of hearing Kathleen Sibelius tell the accounts of discussions with Republicans during the crafting of ACA. The Republican message boiled down to this: if we support it and it goes south we’re going to get the blame; if it goes well you’re going to get the credit*. There’s nothing in it for us. But we can rile up our voters and stir up enthusiasm for the midterm election.

This is what they do. People be damned.

*They have modified their playbook slightly in a decade: they are claiming credit for things they voted against (infrastructure bill), truth be damned.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

I thought Gutter's denouncement of Biden for Afghanistan telling. Trump had drawn down the strength so much there that withdrawal was the least worst option. Despite some issues, the airlift out was pretty sound. With what is going on with Iran, hard to say what the plans were or are. But we are out, and that is a good thing. The leadership to try. And I am with Fish on democracy. Who knew the descent of the GOP would go to this extent--and palling around with Russia.

I very well may have but I don't recall MY specifically denouncing Biden for Afghanistan.
At the moment I am slightly aggravated about how "we" are (and are NOT) handling the Migrant issue/crisis. It's pretty fricking bad in the Chicagoland area - for many reasons.

[japhy]

Bootsy sunk all the way to the fourth page in the politics board. It was obviously time for him to step up his attention whore game.

So he is sending Florida "troops" to the Texas border cuz if Iowa and Oklahoma can do something stoopid, Florida man can do stoopider!

Finally something Bootsy can do on camera and not be embarrassed because he doesn't look human. He can grimace and do kabuki theater with the best of the melodramatic short men!

[Shirley]

Bootsy sunk all the way to the fourth page in the politics board. It was obviously time for him to step up his attention whore game.

So he is sending Florida "troops" to the Texas border cuz if Iowa and Oklahoma can do something stoopid, Florida man can do stoopider!

Finally something Bootsy can do on camera and not be embarrassed because he doesn't look human. He can grimace and do kabuki theater with the best of the melodramatic short men!

Rumor has it that Republican legislators feel like DeFascist has left them out on an anti-woke limb over the last six years, and now that he can't run for Gov again and after such a weak attempt to become the Republican presidential nominee, they're less inclined to do his bidding. Apparently now they're more inclined to do what might help them get reelected, i.e., try to appear somewhat reasonable and moderate. But, I'll believe it, when I see it.

[zsn]

Republicans………reasonable……….surely you jest…….

PS - I didn’t call you…….ohhhhh, never mind!

[Shirley]

Republicans………reasonable……….surely you jest…….

PS - I didn’t call you…….ohhhhh, never mind!

^^^

[jfish26]

Bootsy sunk all the way to the fourth page in the politics board. It was obviously time for him to step up his attention whore game.

So he is sending Florida "troops" to the Texas border cuz if Iowa and Oklahoma can do something stoopid, Florida man can do stoopider!

Finally something Bootsy can do on camera and not be embarrassed because he doesn't look human. He can grimace and do kabuki theater with the best of the melodramatic short men!

Rumor has it that Republican legislators feel like DeFascist has left them out on an anti-woke limb over the last six years, and now that he can't run for Gov again and after such a weak attempt to become the Republican presidential nominee, they're less inclined to do his bidding. Apparently now they're more inclined to do what might help them get reelected, i.e., try to appear somewhat reasonable and moderate. But, I'll believe it, when I see it.

Wait wait wait.

Are you suggesting that an anti-Disney, anti-Bud Light, anti-Taylor Swift platform is running into popularity issues?