Let’s have a war!

[Mjl]

I've learned to not believe much from Haaretz

[DCHawk1]

I've learned to not believe much from Iran

Fixed

[Shirley]

I've learned to not believe much from Haaretz

It occurred to me to add a caveat to that effect, but I was afraid I might offend, so I didn't.

Haaretz is an Israeli newspaper. Admired by many foreigners and few Israelis, loathed by many, mostly Israelis. Read by few, denounced by many, it is a highly ideological, high-quality paper. It has a history of excellence. It has a history of independence. It has a history of counting Israel’s mistakes and misbehavior. It has a history of getting on Israel’s nerves...

[KUTradition]

perhaps as many as 19K Ukrainian children have been deported by russia, to russia

many are being adopted by russian families

so fucked

[TDub]

perhaps as many as 19K Ukrainian children have been deported by russia, to russia

many are being adopted by russian families

so fucked

hey look at the bright side....19k less nazis!.....or....something.

[jfish26]

I’m with Mitch.

[ousdahl]

RIP Daniel Ellsberg.

question to those old and/or well-read enough to remember: what was the reception among the folks at the mall at the time he leaked the Pentagon Papers?

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... e-00099639

Ellsberg describes himself as a Harvard-educated U.S. Marine who in the beginning completely bought into the Cold War struggle against communism, including the Domino Theory. When he went to work for the Defense Department and Rand Corp., he says, “I very much accepted the idea that we were a force for democracy in the Third World, as in Korea, and the former colonial world, and for self-determination, for sovereignty, for peace. We were the good guys.” Initially, he wanted to divulge the Pentagon Papers to Congress, but few people in Congress seemed interested, he says. Ellsberg only reluctantly agreed to go to the media when he began “hearing from contacts in the Nixon administration that Nixon was planning to escalate the war,” says Robert Ellsberg, who as a 13-year-old helped his father secretly copy the Papers.
...

Based on his experience in the covert world, Ellsberg sees a direct line between the deceptions and lies that led to the Vietnam War — and 58,000 American deaths — and the deceptions and lies that justified the Iraq war. This high-level deceit, Ellsberg says, extends to America’s current drone war policy around the world, in which the government has allegedly covered up the number of civilian deaths it causes.
...

obligatory Russian propaganda alert!

At the same time, Horton believes that Ellsberg, like other whistleblowers, occasionally sees conspiracy and government perfidy when the evidence is scant. During the course of our hour- and-20-minute interview, Ellsberg contended America still runs a “covert empire” around the world, embodied in the U.S. domination of NATO. He believes Washington deliberately provoked Vladimir Putin into invading Ukraine by pushing its seat of power eastward toward Russia’s borders; that the mainstream media is “complicit” in allowing the government to keep secrets it has no right to withhold; and that any notion Americans are ever the “good guys” abroad “has always been false.”

(mainstream media reporting as "conspiracy" the allegation that mainstream media is complicit in gummint secrets lulz)

...Ellsberg doesn’t believe it. “Democrats in this area are as shameless as Republicans,” he says. “Our elections in the realm of foreign policy and defense policy and arms sales, I have come to understand, are essentially between people vying to be manager of the empire.”

lots of interesting shit in that article, but for the sake of tldr, for now just consider that point about dems and pubs...is one party really any less hawkish? not really.

and despite all the partisan bickering about so much else, nothing else brings an overwhelming bipartisan majority of Americans together quite like war.

heck, how often on the pols bored is JFish with Mitch!

[Shirley]

question to those old and/or well-read enough to remember: what was the reception among the folks at the mall at the time he leaked the Pentagon Papers?

For those of us who were against the war, he was a hero and an inspiration.

For "real" Americans, i.e., the "my country, love it or leave it" demographic, he was a traitor, and, "the most dangerous man in America".

I've never seen Snowden in the same light as Ellsberg, because Ellsberg attempted to go through "regular channels", congress, but was rebuffed, before going public.

[ousdahl]

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Business/wir ... -100189129

Macron urges Europe to develop its own air defense systems and not rely on the US

[twocoach]

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Business/wir ... -100189129

Macron urges Europe to develop its own air defense systems and not rely on the US

Good. Spend their own damn money.

[Shirley]

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Business/wir ... -100189129

Macron urges Europe to develop its own air defense systems and not rely on the US

Good. Spend their own damn money.

While I feel the same way, Lockheed Martin might not.

[dolomite]

What will Putin accomplish by scorching the earth of Ukraine with nukes? He’s too much of a coward to try anything like it.

[Shirley]

What will Putin accomplish by scorching the earth of Ukraine with nukes? He’s too much of a coward to try anything like it.

Let's hope his "cowardice" overcomes his ambition and fear.

Not a bet I'd want to have to take.

[ousdahl]

Posted without comment

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukrai ... 71f17aee75

[KUTradition]

all he has to do is pack up and go home…voila, peace

[ousdahl]

if he agreed to do that in exchange for us no longer giving weapons to his belligerent neighbors, would you make that deal?

[KUTradition]

lol…you just can’t help yourself, can you?

we’ve been over this before

[ousdahl]

let's consider the fake news propaganda from yet another notorious Putin spambot:

Vladimir Putin.

Putin said Moscow could respond to alleged Ukrainian incursions and shelling of Russia’s border regions by carving out what he described as a “sanitary zone” to prevent Kyiv from launching such attacks.

The zone would extend “to a depth that would prevent it from striking our territory,” he added.

this makes him sound less like the boogeyman hellbent on world domination, and more like a boogeyman who just wants to be left alone, without militants to the west pushing their footprint ever closer to his own doorstep.

but, again, we all know that's just Kremlin disinformation.

The real question is, why the fuck is the AP publishing this shit?

[ousdahl]

lol…you just can’t help yourself, can you?

we’ve been over this before

The Russian leader said ending the hostilities in Ukraine depends on the United States. He argued that the fighting would end immediately if the U.S. and NATO stop providing Ukraine with weapons.
“If they want to see a negotiated solution to the conflict, it’s enough for them to stop weapons supplies,” he said.

Putin said Russian and Ukrainian negotiators drafted a peace agreement in March 2022, but Kyiv spiked the deal under Western pressure. He said Russia is still open to resuming talks.

[KUTradition]

what i don’t understand is how you seemingly continue to believe anything he says