Let’s have a war!

[KUTradition]

i shouldn’t have even engaged you

[ousdahl]

what i don’t understand is how you seemingly continue to believe anything he says

I just ridiculed him as a spambot, propaganda, and disinformation, then asked why the AP even published this shit.

I know I did so rather flippantly. But, if I may articuate, again - I don't believe anything Putin says!

cuz, again, I'm not taking a side here. I condemn all the aggression, without picking and choosing. And, again, I'm skeptical of all the info at hand.

but, to the point about the AP - at the very least, there IS some shift in the way the whole Ukraine sitch is being reported, particularly compared to the earlier stages of the conflict.

[ousdahl]

lol…you just can’t help yourself, can you?

we’ve been over this before

The Russian leader said ending the hostilities in Ukraine depends on the United States. He argued that the fighting would end immediately if the U.S. and NATO stop providing Ukraine with weapons.
“If they want to see a negotiated solution to the conflict, it’s enough for them to stop weapons supplies,” he said.

Putin said Russian and Ukrainian negotiators drafted a peace agreement in March 2022, but Kyiv spiked the deal under Western pressure. He said Russia is still open to resuming talks.

to this point - why not try it? what do we have to loose?

if some US diplomat wanted to at least pretend to be the adult in the room for a moment and say, "OK, Big Vlad, we'll stop giving weapons to your asshole neighbors if you stop invading," what's the worst that could happen?

Say Putin does stop invading, and this whole war is over, and your and my hard-earned tax dollars can go less toward guns and bombs for Ukrainian Proud Boys and more toward other things like helping those poor kids in the Everything We Thought We Knew About The Global Economy Is No Longer True thread....win win?

Or, say Putin doesn't stop invading. So we're right back where we already are right now, and we keep flooding Ukraine with weapons...best case. Or, worst case, NATO gets even more directly involved, further perpetuation becomes further escalation, we go full world war, and Japhy finally gets to Enjoy The Flash.

so, again. Why not?

well, for one thing, this might be the most crookedest Putin propaganda shameless disinformation yet:

At the same time, Putin argued that in the U.S. administration “there are many reasonable people who don’t want to take it all the way to World War III in which there will be no winners.”

definitely not taking his word for it on that, either.

[KUTradition]

https://reuters.com/world/europe/africa ... 023-06-17/



https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/eng/zxxx_66280 ... 30713.html

[ousdahl]

Yea, China and African countries fussing for a peace deal too.

It’s almost like they don’t want perpetual war, or sumptin.

But let’s go with the state department rhetoric that’s so popular here, and assume thee only acceptable resolution to this is for Russia to just wholly withdraw from all occupied Ukrainian territories, and that’s that.

Does the US stop giving weapons to Ukraine then?

That’s to say, and related: what leads us to believe Russia withdrawing from the southern and eastern Ukrainian territories it currently occupies, will end the fighting in those territories?

Cuz western Ukrainian forces have been attacking those territories for years now either way, with proud boy militias gunning and bombing ethnic Russians (and/or fellow Ukrainian countrymen), among others (with weapons paid for by you and me)…

[KUTradition]

i shouldn’t have even engaged you

[Shirley]

Is it too much to hope this is true?



Prigozhi and the private military company, Wagner group are apparently declaring war on the Russian Ministry of Defence. They say that there was a Russian rocket strike on Wagner's mercenaries.

Could this be the start of a “Russian Civil War” or a major turning point in Russia’s war with Ukraine that Ukraine has been waiting for? Here is the statement issued by Prigozhi:

"PMC Wagner Commanders’ Council made a decision: the evil brought by the military leadership of the country must be stopped.

They neglect the lives of soldiers. They forgot the word “justice”, and we will bring it back.

Those, who destroyed today our guys, who destroyed tens, tens of thousands of lives of Russian soldiers will be punished.

I’m asking: no one resist. Everyone who will try to resist, we will consider them a danger and destroy them immediately, including any checkpoints on our way. And any aviation that we see above our heads.

I’m asking everyone to remain calm, do not succumb to provocations, and remain in their houses. Ideally, those along our way, do not go outside.

After we finished what we started, we will return to the frontline to protect our motherland.

Presidential authority, Government, Ministry of Internal Affairs, Rosgvardia, and other departments will continue operating as before.

We will deal with those who destroy Russian soldiers. And we will return to the frontline.

Justice in the Army will be restored. And after this, justice for the whole of Russia."

Note that a lot of misinformation is being spread in this war.

[ousdahl]

Sweet

[Shirley]

Who knows what's really happening, but there sure is a lot of noise.

[Sparko]

Implosion is the word of the week

[Shirley]

[Shirley]

[Mjl]

I'm skeptical

[Shirley]

I'm skeptical

Someone who might have an idea:

[Mjl]

I follow Vindman, he's been regularly over-optimistic with everything regarding this war.

[Shirley]

Putin has fled to St Petersberg?

Anyone know how Prigozhin feels about mutually assured destruction?

Some people say: As much as many people would love to see Putin toppled, this could possibly be an orchestrated move by Putin and Prigozhin to create an excuse for pulling Russian troops out of Ukraine without admitting defeat there.

[twocoach]

Well this took an unexpected turn, didn't it? Crazy.

[ousdahl]

Upon further review, I dunno what to think of this.

While I agree that Putin should be ousted, and ideally even tried for war crimes if possible, I dunno if this particular coup is the direction Russia should be going, either.

Wagner group is a far-right paramilitary known for ultra-nationalist (maybe even nah zee) tendencies.

For a hot minute, I hoped they were getting some sort of more proletariat revolution…not that Russia’s ever tried that before…

But since it IS a far-right coup attempt, what do you guys think then odds are that the Wagner group is somehow in cahoots with the CIA?

[TDub]

oh em gee

take a break ous. run around the house 5 times, touch the tree, do 15 jumping jacks, 3 rounds of hopscotch and a big glass of water.

[ousdahl]

there's water in coors lite, right?