Och

[jfish26]

he carries himself like he belongs

something i wish i would see more of from Grimes

Oh no doubt. Och’s rise has likely hurt Grimes a lot. How in the world can a scout watch the two of them on the court and say that Grimes, and not Och, is the NBA player?

How about 8 months ago?

I don’t follow

[Geezer]

Scouts and for that matter Self and staff viewed Grimes well ahead of Och. Och just ate pixey dust or made a deal with the devil and just zoomed by everybody.

[jfish26]

Scouts and for that matter Self and staff viewed Grimes well ahead of Och. Och just ate pixey dust or made a deal with the devil and just zoomed by everybody.

Or, Och had the right temperament and maturity to handle full Bill (as opposed to recruiting Bill).

This exact situation, by the way, is exactly why the NBA isn’t in a hurry to kill the OAD rule.

[Lonestarjayhawk]

Scouts and for that matter Self and staff viewed Grimes well ahead of Och. Och just ate pixey dust or made a deal with the devil and just zoomed by everybody.

Or, Och had the right temperament and maturity to handle full Bill (as opposed to recruiting Bill).

This exact situation, by the way, is exactly why the NBA isn’t in a hurry to kill the OAD rule.

That situation is why NBA GMs should consider a Two and Thru Rule. Law of average has more time.

[Deleted User 75]

LOL the NBA isn't making a 2 year rule.

Who'd have thunk we'd lose Agbaji after this year!?!?! He's going to have a decision to make. He'd already be a 2nd rounder, but could easily go higher with a good post season and combine.

[randylahey]

I'm not so sure that his lateral quickness is NBA-level at this point. Needs to be able to guard 1-on-1 without fouling. But he'll get there.

But man, can't we just enjoy him for one minute before the NBA talk starts?

are you crazy? his quickness is there. he is closing out on people ridiculously well for someone so inexperienced. he just needs some seasoning and fundamental refinement. the reason the NBA talk is there is because he has all the athletic tools

[jfish26]

Eh, I think he’s still a long way from being a known commodity outside of KU circles.

I think he’s 100% back (barring a postseason ban or something), for an all-league type 2019-20. He will have a tough decision to make after that, but his college trajectory seems to be AA-level.

[Deleted User 183]

Ochai has that magic word - "potential".
It's fun to speculate but NONE of us know his plans and what NBA GM & Scouts are thinking about him.
I can't figure it out. You have guys such as Svi on NBA rosters and then I remind myself, what are Xavier Henry, Josh Selby, and Ben McLemore up to these days?

[Lonestarjayhawk]

NBAdraft.net has him a lottery pick in 2020

[Deleted User 183]

I hope for his sake he is a lottery pick on 2020. Would be very cool if a guy who wasn't a top 100 (top 150?) player coming out of H.S. ended up a lottery pick.
If I am not mistaken (I very well may be), at one point they had Sherron going in the first round and Svi as a lottery pick. I put very little in to mock drafts a year or more before they occur but if Och is as good or better next season - no reason why he can't be a lottery pick.
Hate to state the obvious but so far Och has been a special player.
If he keeps his head on straight, keeps busting his ass, and produces on the court, he deserves all the good he gets in the future - and then some.

[punkrockhawk]

I don't think anyone could have anticipated how great he was going to be. Going from un-ranked and barely recruited, to one of the best players in the league. It's amazing.

[pdub]

My question is, did he just skyrocket in skill over the summer/fall, or was Self all, 'oh shit, I really wish I could not redshirt this guy and redshirt Grimes/KJ/Charlie instead' in June.

[jfish26]

I hope for his sake he is a lottery pick on 2020. Would be very cool if a guy who wasn't a top 100 (top 150?) player coming out of H.S. ended up a lottery pick.
If I am not mistaken (I very well may be), at one point they had Sherron going in the first round and Svi as a lottery pick. I put very little in to mock drafts a year or more before they occur but if Och is as good or better next season - no reason why he can't be a lottery pick.
Hate to state the obvious but so far Och has been a special player.
If he keeps his head on straight, keeps busting his ass, and produces on the court, he deserves all the good he gets in the future - and then some.

Right. Obviously we're in a honeymoon phase with him right now, but other than level of competition (which he's solving twice a week), what's not to like about him?

[jfish26]

My question is, did he just skyrocket in skill over the summer/fall, or was Self all, 'oh shit, I really wish I could not redshirt this guy and redshirt Grimes/KJ/Charlie instead' in June.

As of June, Grimes was poised to be one of the best - perhaps the best - freshman guard/wing Bill's ever had.

So the point you're referencing probably occurred some time between that time, and the time the articles started to come out about Grimes actually turning out to be soft (or, softer than expected).

[Deleted User 89]

i'm hesitant to call Grimes soft

it still looks to me like he's either thinking to much, or just hasn't adjusted to the athleticism at this level

as to Ochai, definitely a diamond in the rough. it wasn't just Self that underestimated his ability, particularly as it relates to being "ready" to contribute

[Deleted User 75]

How fast he's risen makes me think he should strike while the iron is hot as far as the NBA Draft goes.

I don't take NBAdraft.net very seriously because they've often over valued KU players for some reason.....but if he's truly projected that he'd be a lotto pick next year, then there's really no reason to come back because someone would take him late 1st or early 2nd if the lotto in 2020 projection is true. They'd get him a year ealier and for less money....and he'd get an extra year of earning potential and NBA experience. His intelligence and solid family foundation makes me think he'd handle the transition better than a lot of kids his age.

[jfish26]

i'm hesitant to call Grimes soft

it still looks to me like he's either thinking to much, or just hasn't adjusted to the athleticism at this level

as to Ochai, definitely a diamond in the rough. it wasn't just Self that underestimated his ability, particularly as it relates to being "ready" to contribute

I think, for the balance of this season, Grimes has been "soft" in the way Bill uses the word. That's not to say the light can't go on...it's just very hard to overstate how disappointing Grimes has been, based on where everyone from suggestion-box-filler to suggestion-box-reader thought he'd be.

[jfish26]

How fast he's risen makes me think he should strike while the iron is hot as far as the NBA Draft goes.

I don't take NBAdraft.net very seriously because they've often over valued KU players for some reason.....but if he's truly projected that he'd be a lotto pick next year, then there's really no reason to come back because someone would take him late 1st or early 2nd if the lotto in 2020 projection is true.

Right - if it's Spring 2020, and he looks like a lock for the lottery, that's something incredibly hard to turn down. It's also true, though, that necessarily he'd then be in line for an AA-type season as a junior. Maybe that's something he wants, and values, enough to stay in college longer.

Of course I could think of some ways where the financial gamble of staying in college wasn't so great.

[TDub]

I dunno, im just happy hes as good as he is right now. We need him to be this good and its enjoyable to watch him succeed and flourish. Whatever happens the next couple years happens. If he is able to leave early and be a lotto pick in the future then more power to him. We'll jump off that bridge when we get there.

[Deleted User 75]

I think if he has a good finish to the rest of the year he should at least declare and go thru the combine stuff. No reason no to. If he's got someone who commits that they'll take him late 1st or early 2nd this summer then that would be hard to pass up.