Patriotism

[Mjl]

Every thread here, perhaps rightly considering the context, is really negative. So I wanted to start a positive one, this one a pro-American one. Not like the ignorant kind saying it's the best country ever. But both sides seem to hate America these days.

The thing that made me start this was sitting here a bit high, thinking about the shit going down in Israel with the new laws minimizing the power of the judiciary. They don't have real separation between executive and legislative, so if they neuter the supreme court, the coalition with the small majority of votes can do anything they want. And they have no constitution to define what kind of laws they can pass.

Which makes me respect our system of separation of powers. The pieces all having different cadences (2 years, 4, 6, and lifetime) is such a great idea.

Whose was it?

[randylahey]

I don't think conservatives hate America. Quite the opposite

[randylahey]

Libertarians and conservatives hate what this country is turning into. The way big government plays dirty politics to continue to gain more control and power over the American people

[randylahey]

They hate the way liberals fall for the mind games the deep state plays to gain control over the people

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

They hate the way liberals fall for the mind games the deep state plays to gain control over the people

*** EDIT *** I deleted my response to randy.

P.S. Sorry to shit on your positive thread Mjl but of course randy beat me to it and I felt compelled to reply.

GBA!

To answer your question. I don't have a definitive answer but in Article 1 of the Constitution it states Senators will serve a 6 year term.

[Shirley]

Every thread here, perhaps rightly considering the context, is really negative. So I wanted to start a positive one, this one a pro-American one. Not like the ignorant kind saying it's the best country ever. But both sides seem to hate America these days...

Not a bad idea.

That being said, I find that statement offensive, and intellectually lazy.

It takes me back to when I was a young man facing the very real possibility of being drafted to go fight and possibly die in America's Vietnam disaster. Back when those of us who resisted the war, (and thankfully brought it to an earlier end than it would have otherwise), were vilified and accused of "hating America", shot by the National Guard, surveilled by the FBI, called "Fucking Traitors", saw bumper stickers everywhere that said: "My Country Love it or Leave It", and later, when Bush decided to invade Iraq under false pretenses, told "You're either with us, or against us".

Were you not stoned, this would be my reply.

...fuck you.

Since you were, I'll give you a pass.

[Shirley]

Adding Finland and Sweden to NATO this quickly was not a foregone conclusion, but doing so strengthens the West and the United States. Even tho it was Putin's and Trump's goal to weaken the alliance, it has only grown stronger in the last couple of years, and I'm thankful for those whose leadership made that possible.

[randylahey]

Claiming this to be a positive and starting with everyone hates America is wildddddd. Only a leftie would do so

[jfish26]

You keep saying and doing things that make it seem like you don’t have kids.

Because I love America like I love my kids: I remember the past fondly (and probably in overly-soft light), but I identify and address shortcomings and faults so that the future can be as wide and open and bright as possible.

Identifying those shortcomings and faults is love. Truly loving something that’s growing and changing means being open to growth and change!

What’s NOT love is hoping the person or thing in question stays the same way, or any particular way, forever. What’s especially NOT love is acting on that unloving hope, trying to arrest or even reverse growth and change.

[KUTradition]

only a leftie…

somebody is broken

[defixione]

After reading all the Tweets on Feral's Groomers thread, and seeing the diametric differences between the words and actions, I thought it would be interesting to parse Randy's algorithm. I don't think I would be surprised by anything I found.

'The lady doth protest too much, methinks.'

[Sparko]

Patriotism is doing what's best for one's country, divested as much as possible from corrupt selfishness. The left is mostly the side asking for sacrifice for the greater good. On everything from taxation to climate action. The right wing is in a cycle of violence and blaming others, playing on rampant selfishness to delay progress on several fronts, from civil rights to climate action.

[zsn]

Every thread here, perhaps rightly considering the context, is really negative. So I wanted to start a positive one, this one a pro-American one. Not like the ignorant kind saying it's the best country ever. But both sides seem to hate America these days...

Not a bad idea.

That being said, I find that statement offensive, and intellectually lazy.

It takes me back to when I was a young man facing the very real possibility of being drafted to go fight and possibly die in America's Vietnam disaster. Back when those of us who resisted the war, (and thankfully brought it to an earlier end than it would have otherwise), were vilified and accused of "hating America", shot by the National Guard, surveilled by the FBI, called "Fucking Traitors", saw bumper stickers everywhere that said: "My Country Love it or Leave It", and later, when Bush decided to invade Iraq under false pretenses, told "You're either with us, or against us".

Were you not stoned, this would be my reply.

...fuck you.

Since you were, I'll give you a pass.

It would be appropriate to remind oneself of Samuel Johnson’s admonition about Patriotism.

[DCHawk1]

I understand the story of my life in such a way that it is part of the history of my family or of this farm or of this university or of this countryside; and I understand the story of the lives of other individuals around me as embedded in the same larger stories, so that I and they share a common stake in the outcome of that story and in what sort of story it both is and is to be: tragic, heroic, comic. A central contention of the morality of patriotism is that I will obliterate and lose a central dimension of the moral life if I do not understand the enacted narrative of my own individual life as embedded in the history of my country. For if I do not understand it I will not understand what I owe to others or what others owe to me, for what crimes of my nation I am bound to make reparation, for what benefits to my nation I am bound to feel gratitude.

--Alasdair MacIntyre, Lindley Lecture, 1984, University of Kansas

Today, neither the pro-patriots nor the anti-patriots have any idea what they’re in favor of or against. They do not believe that they “share a common stake” with their countrymen, but worse still, they have the “larger story” entirely wrong.

[Shirley]

One can only wonder what an "anti-patriot" is.

[jfish26]

One can only wonder what an "anti-patriot" is.

I suppose it depends what the definition of "patriot" is. I have a feeling that there may not be common agreement on that!

[DCHawk1]

Correct -- which is, of course, what I said.

[DCHawk1]

Also, it might be worth noting zsn's admission above.

[jfish26]

Correct -- which is, of course, what I said.

But I will say - and this relates to others' accusations that everything is through a single, binary (giggle) ideological lens - while you and I don't see eye to eye on many things, I suspect our definitions of patriotism are not SO different.

[KUTradition]

there is only one, real definition of patriot