Israel/Palestine

[Shirley]

Performing the dance that allows you to thread the needle of criticizing Bibi, et al, while not finding yourself accused of being antisemitic, is fraught.

Perhaps only exceeded by Israel ensuring its existence while nearly surrounded by often hostile countries that don't recognize said existence, and not coming across as too aggressive and imperialistic.

That being said, fuck Bibi. I don't expect Israelis to accept his fascist "judicial reforms" any more than I expect Americans who aren't part of Trump's fascist cult to accept his attempt to violently overthrow our government.

[ousdahl]

Where is that line drawn, then?

Russia claims Ukrainian territory by force, and we fault Russia for doing so…Israel claims Palestinian territory by force, and we fault the surrounding countries for not recognizing Israel’s existence…

[MICHHAWK]

can we nuke them all and let god it sort it out.

[Shirley]

Where is that line drawn, then?

Russia claims Ukrainian territory by force, and we fault Russia for doing so…Israel claims Palestinian territory by force, and we fault the surrounding countries for not recognizing Israel’s existence…

It will take something stronger than ganja for me to accept your premise that Israel and Russia are equivalent.

pass

[Sparko]

I do think hard-line authoritarian government is not good for Israel. I hope for moderation and peace.

[ousdahl]

So what I think yer saying is, taking territory by force isn’t inherently bad

it’s only bad when a boogeyman does it, but OK when an ally does?

(Or when we did/do in Merica)

[KUTradition]

imo, it isn’t ok that Israel is doing it either

if you want to expand your borders, buy land from your neighbors

don’t invade and start a war, don’t keep squatting in an effort to reach some critical mass

[DCHawk1]

Where is that line drawn, then?

Russia claims Ukrainian territory by force, and we fault Russia for doing so…Israel claims Palestinian territory by force, and we fault the surrounding countries for not recognizing Israel’s existence…

This analogy might be valid if Ukraine and all of the other Slavic peoples had, repeatedly, declared war on Russia, attacked it in unison, and lost (over and over and over again), leaving Russia in a spot where it felt it needed a security buffer.

But since that didn't happen, the analogy is just stoopid.

[DCHawk1]

Also, I love that Jenin is still considered a "refugee camp" -- 75 years later.

Makes for more funnerer headlines that way, I think.

[ousdahl]

Yea, it’s rare for western media to afford Palestine language as kind as “refugee camp.” I’ve mostly just seen “refugee camp that harbors terrorists,” and such.

And I’d pretty fun that you insinuate it’s some thing of the past for Israeli forces (armed by you and me) to turn Palestinians into refugees.

Lemme guess - did congress also pass some performative and meaningless vote to declare Palestinians displaced by Israel are no longer gonna be called “refugees” too?

[ousdahl]

Where is that line drawn, then?

Russia claims Ukrainian territory by force, and we fault Russia for doing so…Israel claims Palestinian territory by force, and we fault the surrounding countries for not recognizing Israel’s existence…

This analogy might be valid if Ukraine and all of the other Slavic peoples had, repeatedly, declared war on Russia, attacked it in unison, and lost (over and over and over again), leaving Russia in a spot where it felt it needed a security buffer.

But since that didn't happen, the analogy is just stoopid.

Yea, for sure, cuz Ukraine and other Slavic peoples have historically like always totally gotten along with Russia, up until February 2022.

[twocoach]

Where is that line drawn, then?

Russia claims Ukrainian territory by force, and we fault Russia for doing so…Israel claims Palestinian territory by force, and we fault the surrounding countries for not recognizing Israel’s existence…

This analogy might be valid if Ukraine and all of the other Slavic peoples had, repeatedly, declared war on Russia, attacked it in unison, and lost (over and over and over again), leaving Russia in a spot where it felt it needed a security buffer.

But since that didn't happen, the analogy is just stoopid.

Yea, for sure, cuz Ukraine and other Slavic peoples have historically like always totally gotten along with Russia, up until February 2022.

It's as if 2 line analogies aren't a great way to sum up issues that have gone on for thousands of years... who knew?

[Sparko]

Let there be light.
And it was good.
Pretty, pretty, pretty good.

[DCHawk1]

Where is that line drawn, then?

Russia claims Ukrainian territory by force, and we fault Russia for doing so…Israel claims Palestinian territory by force, and we fault the surrounding countries for not recognizing Israel’s existence…

This analogy might be valid if Ukraine and all of the other Slavic peoples had, repeatedly, declared war on Russia, attacked it in unison, and lost (over and over and over again), leaving Russia in a spot where it felt it needed a security buffer.

But since that didn't happen, the analogy is just stoopid.

Yea, for sure, cuz Ukraine and other Slavic peoples have historically like always totally gotten along with Russia, up until February 2022.

[Mjl]

Performing the dance that allows you to thread the needle of criticizing Bibi, et al, while not finding yourself accused of being antisemitic, is fraught.

Perhaps only exceeded by Israel ensuring its existence while nearly surrounded by often hostile countries that don't recognize said existence, and not coming across as too aggressive and imperialistic.

That being said, fuck Bibi. I don't expect Israelis to accept his fascist "judicial reforms" any more than I expect Americans who aren't part of Trump's fascist cult to accept his attempt to violently overthrow our government.

There is absolutely nothing antisemitic about criticizing Bibi's judicial reforms.

Or the more concerning - his being in power by forming a coalition with far right parties. Which, to be fair, he has been criticizing lately. But, again, that's been more performative, considering Ben G'vir still holds power.

Referring broadly to Israel as racist or apartheid or being flat out anti-Zionist - that's where you get into antisemitic territory.

[Mjl]

This analogy might be valid if Ukraine and all of the other Slavic peoples had, repeatedly, declared war on Russia, attacked it in unison, and lost (over and over and over again), leaving Russia in a spot where it felt it needed a security buffer.

But since that didn't happen, the analogy is just stoopid.

Yea, for sure, cuz Ukraine and other Slavic peoples have historically like always totally gotten along with Russia, up until February 2022.

Holy shit

[Mjl]

Where is that line drawn, then?

Russia claims Ukrainian territory by force, and we fault Russia for doing so…Israel claims Palestinian territory by force, and we fault the surrounding countries for not recognizing Israel’s existence…

This analogy might be valid if Ukraine and all of the other Slavic peoples had, repeatedly, declared war on Russia, attacked it in unison, and lost (over and over and over again), leaving Russia in a spot where it felt it needed a security buffer.

But since that didn't happen, the analogy is just stoopid.

And throw in there Russia refusing to exist at all if it means Ukraine exists.

[ousdahl]

anyone care to quote this so as to ask mjl how he conflates Israeli human rights abuses against Palestinians with getting "into antisemitic territory?"

[ousdahl]

and for that matter, AOC and Omar and Cori Bush, "The Squad" boycotting Herzog's speech to Congress.

was the squad's motivation to do so antisemitic?

[DCHawk1]

and for that matter, AOC and Omar and Cori Bush, "The Squad" boycotting Herzog's speech to Congress.

was the squad's motivation to do so antisemitic?

I don't know if it was antisemitic, but it was high-lariously stoopid.

We HaTe BiBi,sO wE'rE gOnNa BoYcOtT hErZoG!