Vick

[pdub]

"I think it's fine to criticize his on the court behavior.
And his off the court behavior if it's something that is hurting others.

There are 2 main problems I have an issue with:
1. Discrediting his accomplishments on the court - he's an above average to good player - his mistakes are exacerbated on this board.
2. To celebrate his absence because of a personal matter not knowing at all what it could be."

[NDballer13]

There are murderers in Mexico.

Not true. Just one. Every murder ever in Mexico was done by El Chapo.

[pdub]

If Vick wasn't an above average to good player, why would Bill Self start him and play him significant minutes?
Just because?

[jfish26]

If Vick wasn't an above average to good player, why would Bill Self start him and play him significant minutes?
Just because?

...a weird path to go down when Vick is not with the team with - and this is impossible to know - something in between Bill's consent and Bill's demand.

[pdub]

For the part of the season ( most of it ) he's played.
I figured that would be assumed.

"and this is impossible to know"

This isn't even cherry picking, it's making up.

[jfish26]

I should have been clearer: what's "impossible to know" is the degree to which Bill was involved in Vick's departure.

AT THE LEAST, Bill allowed it.

AT THE MOST, Bill directed it.

[pdub]

That's fair.
Again, has nothing to do with my issue.

1. Discrediting his accomplishments on the court - he's an above average to good player - his mistakes are exacerbated on this board.
2. To celebrate his absence because of a personal matter not knowing at all what it could be.

Can we agree that Vick is a better player than Grimes?
And if so, if Vick was playing at the level he was playing before he left, he might be a good option to have on the team considering the minutes that Grimes is playing?
And can we agree that Marcus Garrett is still a liability on most nights offensively?
And if so, if Vick was playing at the level he was playing before he left, he might be a good option to have on the team considering the minutes that Garrett is playing?

[jfish26]

You think people are "discrediting" his accomplishments on the court. I think you're overvaluing his contributions (not in a small part because he is a senior, and you are hardwired to think there's something about that that is intrinsically good).

And - I can't speak for everyone - I am not celebrating whatever circumstance has caused him to regress badly the last couple weeks, and eventually led to him not being with the team. I am, though, relieved by not having to watch his personal life wreck the basketball team I follow, and encouraged by how much better the basketball team looks to me, in his absence.

[pdub]

"You think people are "discrediting" his accomplishments on the court. I think you're overvaluing his contributions"

"If Vick wasn't an above average to good player, why would Bill Self start him and play him significant minutes?"

[pdub]

And to this:
"And - I can't speak for everyone - I am not celebrating whatever circumstance has caused him to regress badly the last couple weeks, and eventually led to him not being with the team. I am, though, relieved by not having to watch his personal life wreck the basketball team I follow, and encouraged by how much better the basketball team looks to me, in his absence."

1. I don't think you are one of the ones celebrating his departure and regression.
2. Again, tied at half time with OSU at home and then beating them by 12 and then almost loosing to TCU isn't really that much better than expectations. I don't think Vick being on the team would have lost us the OSU game. And I don't think ( and I could be wrong ) that Vick being on the team would have lost us the TCU game either - we very much could have lost that and were fortunate at the end not to.

[CrimsonNBlue]

In a small sample size, Vick's absence certainly doesn't seem to be a sizable net loss, which is interesting because the stats would have suggested that it would kill us.

Given his hot/cold presence, I don't blame fans for being hesitant about him rejoining the team at this juncture of the season. I think a lot of fans expected some kind of conference season regression, but this was more dramatic than most would have predicted. I get why some are at the point where they just want to wash their hands and roll their eyes at glass-half full statistical summaries.

[PhDhawk]

I'm a pretty big Vick defender and I'm hesitant about him rejoining the team. But that's mostly because this team has had to adjust it's style of play about 10 times this season, and I'd like continuity going into the tournament. It'll be a tricky game to play to decide whether the contributions Vick could make outweigh the potential disruption to how we're playing.

In terms of making any meaningful statements about how we're playing without him, the sample size and competition level are both too small at this time. And, as good as we're all feeling right now, OSU is shitty and hung around way too long, we nearly blew the TCU game, and our best player apparently threw a temper tantrum in the first half. So...while I like where we are at and where we appear to be headed, we're still on the razor's edge.

I think it's possible the team we put on the court without Vick plays better together (time will tell) but by loosing Vick our margin of error becomes much much smaller.

[pdub]

And I think we'll handle a short handed WVU with ease this weekend, regardless.
If we travel to Tech and miss 21 3's again ( like we did v TCU ), there's a good chance we'll loose.

[CrimsonNBlue]

I'm a pretty big Vick defender and I'm hesitant about him rejoining the team. But that's mostly because this team has had to adjust it's style of play about 10 times this season, and I'd like continuity going into the tournament. It'll be a tricky game to play to decide whether the contributions Vick could make outweigh the potential disruption to how we're playing.

In terms of making any meaningful statements about how we're playing without him, the sample size and competition level are both too small at this time. And, as good as we're all feeling right now, OSU is shitty and hung around way too long, we nearly blew the TCU game, and our best player apparently threw a temper tantrum in the first half. So...while I like where we are at and where we appear to be headed, we're still on the razor's edge.

I think it's possible the team we put on the court without Vick plays better together (time will tell) but by loosing Vick our margin of error becomes much much smaller.

I think, ideally at this point, you bring him back in the rotation role that he had in 2017. The 3-headed monster of Dotson-Lawson-Agbaji really looks like our tournament core, and they have swagger.

[pdub]

"glass-half full statistical summaries"

PPG. FG%. 3FG%.
Glass-half full.
I'll be sure to remember that whenever JFish or CnB uses any of those metrics as an argument, that they are simply using glass-half full statistical summaries.

[Deleted User 75]

You guys sure do like to argue....

[PhDhawk]

You guys sure do like to argue....

An ellipsis typically contains three dots...not four...



Don't wink at me you fucker.

[Deleted User 75]

PDub going with the illy method circa 2017 and just repeating the same things multiple times.

I approve!

[pdub]

The difference is my arguments have a point/intention - we are on the Vick thread after all.
You just argue to argue.
You are the LeBron, Gutter the MJ.

[Deleted User 75]

If you say so.

Seems like you do plenty of arguing to argue....and repeating yourself.