2024

[randylahey]

I fully support other world views so long as they aren't based on the lies and unsubstantiated bullshit that you spew all over this place.

"I don't even necessarily believe all the things I repost. I just challenge you all to consider other possibilities." is just your mental justification for "I like to troll because I think it's funny to be a dick".

A lot of liberal world views are based on lies and propaganda. Same as conservative. Quite the conundrum

You always say these general things but you rarely ever point out specific examples of them when you see them. We, however, regularly provide you with direct evidence of your bullshit on a near daily basis. It's really not a conundrum at all.

Not even close to accurate.

1 easy super mainstream example

"Get vaccinated and you won't get covid"

The lie played on a mass scale

[jfish26]

A lot of liberal world views are based on lies and propaganda. Same as conservative. Quite the conundrum

You always say these general things but you rarely ever point out specific examples of them when you see them. We, however, regularly provide you with direct evidence of your bullshit on a near daily basis. It's really not a conundrum at all.

Not even close to accurate.

1 easy super mainstream example

"Get vaccinated and you won't get covid"

The lie played on a mass scale

Jesus Christ.

You are taking a couple cherry-picked, offhand misstatements and turning them into something much more significant. You know full well that the public health positioning on vaccines was never, in substance, "get vaccinated and you won't get Covid."

You know that. And yet you lie about it.

[randylahey]

No I'm not. Biden, faucci, dozens of people in the mainstream media all said word for word at one point, that if you get vaccinated you will not get covid.

It's a perfect example of left wing propaganda that was a flat out lie and backed by nothing

[ousdahl]

I just think you’re starting from the wrong place, and it’s infecting the rest of everything you have to say on this subject.

I do not think it’s remotely close to true to describe what we’re doing vis a vis Ukraine as warmongering. Nor is it adventurism, nor neocolonialism, nor resource-grabbing.

This is a category error.

Russia’s war on Ukraine - and that’s what it is - has much less in common with anything that happened after WW2 than it does to what happened before it.

This isn’t the first time you insist there is no resource-grabbing or neocolonialism to do with Ukraine.

If that’s the case, then why do the Halliburton types have an interest there?

And if it’s not adventurism either, then what have we been doing parading the Bidens and McCains and such around there for pep rallies, very likely more, since at least 2014?

And at least in that post, I didn’t mention Ukraine….as much of a resource drain as Ukraine is and has been, just realize Ukraine is only a very small fraction of our overall militancy on the world stage.

You're starting with a conclusion and working backwards, even though the conclusion relies on bad inputs.

You're also relying on Randy-esque, "prove this negative or else I'm RIGHT" gotchas.

It just feels like, for reasons I can't figure out, it's very important to you to be a peacenik on this issue. It feels like you think that our prior missteps or misadventures somehow mean we're blocked from doing the right thing in this situation.

You dodged the question.

What do you think Halliburton’s interest in Ukraine might be?

And, since you brought it up, what makes you think our prior missteps and misadventures mean we’re doing “the right thing” now?

Put another way - considering the egg on face that has been Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, etc, I just don’t think anyone - whether the MIC or posters here - has demonstrated the US war machine is suddenly gonna be the “right thing” for Ukraine.

But please do prove wrong!

[jfish26]

No I'm not. Biden, faucci, dozens of people in the mainstream media all said word for word at one point, that if you get vaccinated you will not get covid.

It's a perfect example of left wing propaganda that was a flat out lie and backed by nothing

Are you…taking two different tweets that cherry pick a single misstatement, in defense of claims that you cherry pick misstatements?*

I’m sorry: it’s just fucking FALSE to say that anyone’s substantive position has ever been that if you take the Covid vaccine, you won’t get Covid.

And because that is fucking FALSE, it’s especially fucking FALSE to use that lie as support for your own (actual) lies.

* It is not lost on me that it appears that one of the two tweets - which appear to be of the same misstatement at the same event? - has used a mirror image or video? Note the direction of the tie stripes, and the placement of the mic. One might suspect that the creators of these two pieces of misinformation…manipulated the evidence to make it appear to in fact be two distinct things?

Am I saying that YOU, Randy, picked up on this? No. But I am saying that this is an example of HOW you’re being tricked.

[jfish26]

This isn’t the first time you insist there is no resource-grabbing or neocolonialism to do with Ukraine.

If that’s the case, then why do the Halliburton types have an interest there?

And if it’s not adventurism either, then what have we been doing parading the Bidens and McCains and such around there for pep rallies, very likely more, since at least 2014?

And at least in that post, I didn’t mention Ukraine….as much of a resource drain as Ukraine is and has been, just realize Ukraine is only a very small fraction of our overall militancy on the world stage.

You're starting with a conclusion and working backwards, even though the conclusion relies on bad inputs.

You're also relying on Randy-esque, "prove this negative or else I'm RIGHT" gotchas.

It just feels like, for reasons I can't figure out, it's very important to you to be a peacenik on this issue. It feels like you think that our prior missteps or misadventures somehow mean we're blocked from doing the right thing in this situation.

You dodged the question.

What do you think Halliburton’s interest in Ukraine might be?

And, since you brought it up, what makes you think our prior missteps and misadventures mean we’re doing “the right thing” now?

Put another way - considering the egg on face that has been Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, etc, I just don’t think anyone - whether the MIC or posters here - has demonstrated the US war machine is suddenly gonna be the “right thing” for Ukraine.

But please do prove wrong!

Seizing on the scarifying Halliburton thing is extremely Randy-esque, especially when paired with the insistence on proving a negative.

I simply don’t think there is even an apples-to-oranges comparison to be made here, with (1) adventurism/profiteering in the Middle East, or (2) direct involvement in Vietnam.

And I think you need to think - carefully and critically - about who benefits from these entirely distinct things being lumped in with each other.

[Sparko]

IF you are vaccinated, you are much less likely to die or get very sick from COVID. But nothing is 100-percent. Not looking before you cross the street can end well too. And Ous. Give it a rest man.

[jfish26]

IF you are vaccinated, you are much less likely to die or get very sick from COVID. But nothing is 100-percent. Not looking before you cross the street can end well too. And Ous. Give it a rest man.

The right very, very, very purposefully conflates the relative purposes/functions/effects of vaccines and masks so as to serve its goals.

This is exactly WHY you have Randy out here amplifying a cherry-picked misstatement on the efficacy of vaccines.

And it’s also exactly WHY Randy will call masks ineffective because they do not protect the wearer.

[ousdahl]

Guess I just disagree.

I think it’s randy-esque to admit Halliburton cashing in on Iraq after the fact to be a little fishy, but Halliburton cashing in on Ukraine in real time to be Putin propaganda.

I realize you don’t see parallels between middle eastern adventurism/profiteering and Ukraine adventurism/profiteering, but on that - it’s also worth mentioning you seem to think of this geopolitical issue in some neat tidy vacuum; that Putin invaded unilaterally for no reason at all, and that the years of US adventurism/profiteering in Ukraine couldn’t possibly have anything to do with it.

(It’s the equivalent to early 2000s rejecting any criticism and doubling down on, “but Saddam has WMDs!!!”)

I don’t mean to gaslight, but you really seem to be willfully avoiding the bigger picture here.

And to think on your point about who benefits from these entirely distinct things being lumped in with each other…is it…capital?

I don’t think that’s the answer you wanted. But, what US warmongering and adventurism abroad seems to always have in common is, windfalls for the MIC.

And, to the point in the millennials thread about finally standing up to the MIC, I just don’t see it happening - not when criticism of the MIC is only ok after the fact, but in real time is knee-jerk assumed to be Putin propaganda if it’s called anything but the “right thing.”

[ousdahl]

And bringing the thread back on topic -

At age 83, after 36 years in congress, Nancy Pelosi says she’ll run for re-election

What’s even more impressive is that she was able to say so without suddenly going quiet and staring off into space.

[jfish26]

Guess I just disagree.

I think it’s randy-esque to admit Halliburton cashing in on Iraq after the fact to be a little fishy, but Halliburton cashing in on Ukraine in real time to be Putin propaganda.

I realize you don’t see parallels between middle eastern adventurism/profiteering and Ukraine adventurism/profiteering, but on that - it’s also worth mentioning you seem to think of this geopolitical issue in some neat tidy vacuum; that Putin invaded unilaterally for no reason at all, and that the years of US adventurism/profiteering in Ukraine couldn’t possibly have anything to do with it.

(It’s the equivalent to early 2000s rejecting any criticism and doubling down on, “but Saddam has WMDs!!!”)

I don’t mean to gaslight, but you really seem to be willfully avoiding the bigger picture here.

And to think on your point about who benefits from these entirely distinct things being lumped in with each other…is it…capital?

I don’t think that’s the answer you wanted. But, what US warmongering and adventurism abroad seems to always have in common is, windfalls for the MIC.

And, to the point in the millennials thread about finally standing up to the MIC, I just don’t see it happening - not when criticism of the MIC is only ok after the fact, but in real time is knee-jerk assumed to be Putin propaganda if it’s called anything but the “right thing.”

I do not think that Putin invaded unilaterally for no reason at all. That’s sort of the point here.

[TDub]

And bringing the thread back on topic -

At age 83, after 36 years in congress, Nancy Pelosi says she’ll run for re-election

What’s even more impressive is that she was able to say so without suddenly going quiet and staring off into space.

how many G&Ts did she have before she made her statement?

good news, taxpayers might save some money if her and Feinstein travel together and share colostomy bags.

[jfish26]

Let me put this all a different way.

If one is insistent on comparing a sovereign power’s actions vis a vis Ukraine to the United States’ actions in the Middle East or even Vietnam…whose actions now are more similar to the United States’ actions then?

Is the answer the United States?

Or is it Russia?

[twocoach]

A lot of liberal world views are based on lies and propaganda. Same as conservative. Quite the conundrum

You always say these general things but you rarely ever point out specific examples of them when you see them. We, however, regularly provide you with direct evidence of your bullshit on a near daily basis. It's really not a conundrum at all.

Not even close to accurate.

1 easy super mainstream example

"Get vaccinated and you won't get covid"

The lie played on a mass scale

If that's your understanding of the message then it is because you have read it through your distorted prism and ignored what it actually says. We have had this same conversation probably a dozen times. The covid vaccines were designed to help reduce the likelihood of transmission and to help reduce the severity of infection if you do still get it. Anyone who thought it would PREVENT them from getting it wasn't actually reading the message.

Like I said, lie after lie after lie.

[jfish26]

You always say these general things but you rarely ever point out specific examples of them when you see them. We, however, regularly provide you with direct evidence of your bullshit on a near daily basis. It's really not a conundrum at all.

Not even close to accurate.

1 easy super mainstream example

"Get vaccinated and you won't get covid"

The lie played on a mass scale

If that's your understanding of the message then it is because you have read it through your distorted prism and ignored what it actually says. We have had this same conversation probably a dozen times. The covid vaccines were designed to help reduce the likelihood of transmission and to help reduce the severity of infection if you do still get it. Anyone who thought it would PREVENT them from getting it wasn't actually reading the message.

Like I said, lie after lie after lie.

Congratulations, you just bought a one-way ticket on the Bad Faith Express. The next stop is “Look at this sound bite from when we didn’t even know how Covid worked, but this sound bite proves my ideology was “right” in hindsight!”

[mjl2]

Let me put this all a different way.

If one is insistent on comparing a sovereign power’s actions vis a vis Ukraine to the United States’ actions in the Middle East or even Vietnam…whose actions now are more similar to the United States’ actions then?

Is the answer the United States?

Or is it Russia?

I tried to explain this, didn't work.
The lesson some people seem to take from some of the US past actions is "US is bad", not "Those actions were bad"

[ousdahl]

Yeah, mjl tried to explain this.

And yeah, didn’t work.

“So what if the neighbor’s dog bit you last month, and bit you last week, and bit you yesterday. That doesn’t mean you should worry about getting bit again today. Makes sense if you don’t think about it!”

[ousdahl]

Let me put this all a different way.

If one is insistent on comparing a sovereign power’s actions vis a vis Ukraine to the United States’ actions in the Middle East or even Vietnam…whose actions now are more similar to the United States’ actions then?

Is the answer the United States?

Or is it Russia?

Yes.

[jfish26]

Yeah, mjl tried to explain this.

And yeah, didn’t work.

“So what if the neighbor’s dog bit you last month, and bit you last week, and bit you yesterday. That doesn’t mean you should worry about getting bit again today. Makes sense if you don’t think about it!”

But the question isn't, "has that dog bitten people?"

It's, "is that dog biting someone now?"

And the fact of PAST biting is NOT conclusive as to whether the dog is presently biting!

[Shirley]

And bringing the thread back on topic -

At age 83, after 36 years in congress, Nancy Pelosi says she’ll run for re-election

What’s even more impressive is that she was able to say so without suddenly going quiet and staring off into space.

how many G&Ts did she have before she made her statement?

good news, taxpayers might save some money if her and Feinstein travel together and share colostomy bags.

Name another democrat, of any age, you think would have been a more effective speaker of the house than Pelosi before she stepped down 2 years ago, despite her age.