F the NCAA

[Deleted User 75]

Fact. The evidence speaks for itself....that doesn't mean it's not common practice, because it is. I don't think all the former players like Al Harrington coming out and saying what they were offered back in their day are lying. They have no reason to lie.

[ousdahl]

the hypothetical I mean gotcha is alarming.

good cop/bad cop just so they could create themselves a reason to come down that much harder? Mean spirited and vindictive.

if they're gonna pull shit like that then wtf is the point of even working with the ncaa?

Don't self-report. Deny.

[Deleted User 75]

From what I have read they didn't say "if you admit he's a booster we will CLEAR SDS"....it was "if you admit he's a booster then we will make a decision on SDS".

There's a subtle difference in those 2 statements.

I think the whole thing is dumb, because I think the NCAA has known this stuff has been happening on a large scale (meaning 50+ players per class getting improper benefits) for 30+ years.

[jfish26]

the hypothetical I mean gotcha is alarming.

good cop/bad cop just so they could create themselves a reason to come down that much harder? Mean spirited and vindictive.

if they're gonna pull shit like that then wtf is the point of even working with the ncaa?

Don't self-report. Deny.

I'm bothered by the story.

Either the NCAA is going against established practice (and possibly assurances given KU in Silvio's reinstatement process), or we did something catastrophically dumb and reckless in Silvio's reinstatement process.

Perhaps both.

In any case - if where this is really headed is that Kansas, Louisville and Arizona take the fall for Duke, Kentucky, UNC and the rest...I don't see a good reason why the sport should survive.

[Deleted User 75]

After the season Self needs to step up to the plate like K or Calipari would.

I understand why he wouldn't do it at the moment, because that's not fair to this team....but eventually he's going to have to admit this is common and he and others have been doing it for decades...otherwise we're going to take the fall and business will continue as normal for everyone else but us.

[CrimsonNBlue]

or we did something catastrophically dumb and reckless in Silvio's reinstatement process.

I'm sure KU's lawyers were all over the ramifications to stipulating to the booster part in the reinstatement case as to how it affects any institutional investigation. And yet, KU still decided to go out on a long limb for Silvio.

I guess if the consequences of sticking your neck out for a kid is to get your head chopped off, then how exactly is the NCAA serving its mission? Yes, burn the fucker down.

[ousdahl]

the hypothetical I mean gotcha is alarming.

good cop/bad cop just so they could create themselves a reason to come down that much harder? Mean spirited and vindictive.

if they're gonna pull shit like that then wtf is the point of even working with the ncaa?

Don't self-report. Deny.

I'm bothered by the story.

Either the NCAA is going against established practice (and possibly assurances given KU in Silvio's reinstatement process), or we did something catastrophically dumb and reckless in Silvio's reinstatement process.

Perhaps both.

In any case - if where this is really headed is that Kansas, Louisville and Arizona take the fall for Duke, Kentucky, UNC and the rest...I don't see a good reason why the sport should survive.

considering how publicly cautious and forthright we've been about everything else with Silvio (and Billy), it would be surprising to learn we did something catastrophically dumb and reckless behind the scenes.

though is the NCAA really going against established practice, when the NCAA's established practice all along is to be as arbitrary as they wanna be?

Has any other school ever endured penalties from a NCAA-created hypothetical that they then morph into the very substance of their argument?

a fucking hypothetical!

[ousdahl]

or we did something catastrophically dumb and reckless in Silvio's reinstatement process.

I'm sure KU's lawyers were all over the ramifications to stipulating to the booster part in the reinstatement case as to how it affects any institutional investigation. And yet, KU still decided to go out on a long limb for Silvio.

I guess if the consequences of sticking your neck out for a kid is to get your head chopped off, then how exactly is the NCAA serving its mission? Yes, burn the fucker down.

that has such a better ring to it than God Save The Rules.

[Deleted User 75]

or we did something catastrophically dumb and reckless in Silvio's reinstatement process.

I'm sure KU's lawyers were all over the ramifications to stipulating to the booster part in the reinstatement case as to how it affects any institutional investigation. And yet, KU still decided to go out on a long limb for Silvio.

I guess if the consequences of sticking your neck out for a kid is to get your head chopped off, then how exactly is the NCAA serving its mission? Yes, burn the fucker down.

We better stick our neck out for the kid when we're the reason he's suspended in the first place. Letting him take the fall alone would be cowardly.

[Deleted User 75]

is Gassnola a booster?

Seems like we all know the true answer to that question.

[ousdahl]

Gassnola would have never been a booster if KU had simply never self-reported, and denied.

[ousdahl]

it just seems like the NCAA offering a "hypothetical" that maybe Gassnola is a booster, then just rolling with it as established fact, is the NCAA making a mountain of a mole hill to fulfill their own (vindictive and mean-spirited) narrative.

How else were they gonna turn $2500 into a 2 year ban?

[CrimsonNBlue]

The problem with the black letter of the NCAA bylaws is that using catch-all phrases like: "Participated in or has been a member of an organization promoting the university’s athletics programs" or "Been involved otherwise in promoting university athletics" would mean that every employee ever for adidas, nike, etc. is now a booster for every Division 1 program.

That means that any player that has ever played AAU ball has now accepted benefits (in the form of money, uniform, equipment, etc.) that are impermissible.

The problem with the NCAA bylaws is that they are entirely too long and too black letter. There is no wiggle room for common sense.

[jfish26]

The problem with the black letter of the NCAA bylaws is that using catch-all phrases like: "Participated in or has been a member of an organization promoting the university’s athletics programs" or "Been involved otherwise in promoting university athletics" would mean that every employee ever for adidas, nike, etc. is now a booster for every Division 1 program.

That means that any player that has ever played AAU ball has now accepted benefits (in the form of money, uniform, equipment, etc.) that are impermissible.

The problem with the NCAA bylaws is that they are entirely too long and too black letter. There is no wiggle room for common sense.

And it's not like there's a computer somewhere judging these things. When the rules are this complex and this black letter, then you're opening the door for MASSIVE variations on enforcement, based on who wants to make a case.

[jfish26]

or we did something catastrophically dumb and reckless in Silvio's reinstatement process.

I'm sure KU's lawyers were all over the ramifications to stipulating to the booster part in the reinstatement case as to how it affects any institutional investigation. And yet, KU still decided to go out on a long limb for Silvio.

I guess if the consequences of sticking your neck out for a kid is to get your head chopped off, then how exactly is the NCAA serving its mission? Yes, burn the fucker down.

A more depressing possibility is that this whole designation switcheroo thing is just a shiny object (and we knew more was coming down the pike, and just wanted there to be some signaling/softening).

[CrimsonNBlue]

The problem with the black letter of the NCAA bylaws is that using catch-all phrases like: "Participated in or has been a member of an organization promoting the university’s athletics programs" or "Been involved otherwise in promoting university athletics" would mean that every employee ever for adidas, nike, etc. is now a booster for every Division 1 program.

That means that any player that has ever played AAU ball has now accepted benefits (in the form of money, uniform, equipment, etc.) that are impermissible.

The problem with the NCAA bylaws is that they are entirely too long and too black letter. There is no wiggle room for common sense.

And it's not like there's a computer somewhere judging these things. When the rules are this complex and this black letter, then you're opening the door for MASSIVE variations on enforcement, based on who wants to make a case.

Exactly. I wouldn't blame someone for thinking the bylaws are actually tiny and just leave a lot of gray area for the NCAA to make shit up. But, it's really that there is so much black letter bylaw that the NCAA can still do whatever it wants and just point to this bylaw or that catch-all and be like "see, precedent." That's exactly what it tried to do w/ Penn State and the school's lawyers caught it.

[jfish26]

And - just common sense - why do we want to give this kind of power to the NCAA? The answer is, we don't, and we didn't, but the bureaucracy does what bureaucracies do, which is gobble up things to do and win things one land grab at a time.

[twocoach]

After the season Self needs to step up to the plate like K or Calipari would.

I understand why he wouldn't do it at the moment, because that's not fair to this team....but eventually he's going to have to admit this is common and he and others have been doing it for decades...otherwise we're going to take the fall and business will continue as normal for everyone else but us.

"Like K or Calipari would"?!? What? Did I miss uodated comments from them?

Coach K did the polar opposite of admitting he and others have been doing this for decades.

"It's a blip...it's not what's happening." - Coach K on the FBI case in Oct. 2018.

[jfish26]

I just wish that our academic reputation was such that we didn't keep losing out on recruits to which we offered money, just to see them go to Duke for free.

[ousdahl]

Wait, is that supposed to be cheeky?

not sure Zion went to dook cuz of academics...