Let’s have a war!

[Shirley]

"You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before."

Rahm Emanuel

[ousdahl]

Evidence Suggests Ukrainian Missile Caused Market Tragedy

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/18/worl ... arket.html

[Sparko]

Evidence Suggests Ukrainian Missile Caused Market Tragedy

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/18/worl ... arket.html

Um. Yeah. Sure. Trying to take down attacking waves of missiles and rockets SHOT AT CIVILIAN TARGETS is something that Ukraine caused. That headline and story is stupid.

[ousdahl]

Yea, journalism be damned.

[DCHawk1]

Yea, journalism be damned.

Kinda hilarious.

Sparky -- a nouveau McCarthyite warmonger and military-industrial-complex supporter -- is just seconds from calling the press "the enemy of the people."

I mean...

[Sparko]

Supporting democracy is a stretch for some. The reality of what happened to Ukraine is indescribably brutal, down to thousands of abducted children and nightly attacks on agricultural targets and apartments. This is aresenal of democracy time, not a time for but "they hit their buildings trying to stop an attack" crap. Not a time for DC socketry either, Ous.

[DCHawk1]

Supporting democracy....

LOL. I forgot.

You're also a Dick Cheney Stan account now...

[Shirley]

Yea, journalism be damned.

Kinda hilarious.

Sparky -- a nouveau McCarthyite warmonger and military-industrial-complex supporter -- is just seconds from calling the press "the enemy of the people."

I mean...

I'm old enough to remember when "conservatives" at least pretended, if not in reality, opposed Russia.

Or, was that like "law and order" and "fiscal conservative" and...and...and...?

[Sparko]

Supporting democracy....

LOL. I forgot.

You're also a Dick Cheney Stan account now...

Maybe you should head back to the gulag non sequitor

[DCHawk1]

Supporting democracy....

LOL. I forgot.

You're also a Dick Cheney Stan account now...

Maybe you should head back to the gulag non sequitor

Ukraine is no more a democracy than Iraq or Afghanistan, Mr. Vice President.

Russia is wrong. It is the aggressor. It is a brutal, ugly, monstrous nation led by a brutal, ugly, monstrous man. Defending Ukraine is a more than justifiable position.

But not as "defending democracy." I mean...LOL.

[DCHawk1]

Yea, journalism be damned.

Kinda hilarious.

Sparky -- a nouveau McCarthyite warmonger and military-industrial-complex supporter -- is just seconds from calling the press "the enemy of the people."

I mean...

I'm old enough to remember when "conservatives" at least pretended, if not in reality, opposed Russia.

Or, was that like "law and order" and "fiscal conservative" and...and...and...?

And I remember when lefties didn't love war.

C'est la vie. C'est la guerre.

[ousdahl]

Biden and Zelensky want congress to approve another $24 billion (with a B) for the far-right militant regime in Chile


…oops, I mean in Ukraine! hee hee hee. Don’t worry, this coup was waaay different this time.

[MICHHAWK]

it's all just monopoly money. monopoly money and climate change. oh, and vaccines.

[jfish26]

LOL. I forgot.

You're also a Dick Cheney Stan account now...

Maybe you should head back to the gulag non sequitor

Ukraine is no more a democracy than Iraq or Afghanistan, Mr. Vice President.

Russia is wrong. It is the aggressor. It is a brutal, ugly, monstrous nation led by a brutal, ugly, monstrous man. Defending Ukraine is a more than justifiable position.

But not as "defending democracy." I mean...LOL.

For my money (which is supporting the effort here, same as yours) - defending Ukraine primarily for its value as a buffer is a worthwhile endeavor. I understand the problems with this next point, but: I also think supporting Ukraine's right to self-determination is a worthwhile endeavor.

Bleeding Russia dry financially and militarily is a worthwhile endeavor. Showing China (and, relatedly, Taiwan, Japan and Korea) our cards is a worthwhile endeavor. Iterating on stale R&D, and replenishing stores, is a worthwhile endeavor.*

* I also suspect we have nothing like a full view of how all of this actually functions. I fully acknowledge how problematic this next point is, also, but: would it surprise anyone if the end game here is that we use seized Russian assets to fund Ukraine's purchase of all the stuff we've sent?

[MICHHAWK]

uncle joe says billions is the new millions.

[Shirley]

Maybe you should head back to the gulag non sequitor

Ukraine is no more a democracy than Iraq or Afghanistan, Mr. Vice President.

Russia is wrong. It is the aggressor. It is a brutal, ugly, monstrous nation led by a brutal, ugly, monstrous man. Defending Ukraine is a more than justifiable position.

But not as "defending democracy." I mean...LOL.

For my money (which is supporting the effort here, same as yours) - defending Ukraine primarily for its value as a buffer is a worthwhile endeavor. I understand the problems with this next point, but: I also think supporting Ukraine's right to self-determination is a worthwhile endeavor.

Bleeding Russia dry financially and militarily is a worthwhile endeavor. Showing China (and, relatedly, Taiwan, Japan and Korea) our cards is a worthwhile endeavor. Iterating on stale R&D, and replenishing stores, is a worthwhile endeavor.*

* I also suspect we have nothing like a full view of how all of this actually functions. I fully acknowledge how problematic this next point is, also, but: would it surprise anyone if the end game here is that we use seized Russian assets to fund Ukraine's purchase of all the stuff we've sent?

No, it wouldn't surprise me at all.

Although, it would add to the incentives for those who want an alternative to the US dollar as the world's reserve currency.

[Sparko]

Defending Ukraine is defending democracy. Russia has pumped millions into pushing dangerous and stupid autocrats to the fore like a bad Marvel comic. See Trump. Hungary. Slovakia. France. It is possible to lose World War II 80+ years later. Ukraine suffered from many of the post-Soviet governance issues Russia did. But is miles ahead now of where it was. They are already a technology leader and will be an ever more valuable member of Europe. The absolute worthless rightwing crap will provably bring us all down anyway. Randy and Mich ask for the match to light themselves on fire, and it is infuriating. Unreachable fools will be the death of all of us.

[jfish26]

Defending Ukraine is defending democracy. Russia has pumped millions into pushing dangerous and stupid autocrats to the fore like a bad Marvel comic. See Trump. Hungary. Slovakia. France. It is possible to lose World War II 80+ years later. Ukraine suffered from many of the post-Soviet governance issues Russia did. But is miles ahead now of where it was. They are already a technology leader and will be an ever more valuable member of Europe. The absolute worthless rightwing crap will provably bring us all down anyway. Randy and Mich ask for the match to light themselves on fire, and it is infuriating. Unreachable fools will be the death of all of us.

If not now, then when the world's literally on fire, yes.

[Shirley]

Defending Ukraine is defending democracy. Russia has pumped millions into pushing dangerous and stupid autocrats to the fore like a bad Marvel comic. See Trump. Hungary. Slovakia. France. It is possible to lose World War II 80+ years later. Ukraine suffered from many of the post-Soviet governance issues Russia did. But is miles ahead now of where it was. They are already a technology leader and will be an ever more valuable member of Europe. The absolute worthless rightwing crap will provably bring us all down anyway. Randy and Mich ask for the match to light themselves on fire, and it is infuriating. Unreachable fools will be the death of all of us.

Oh Yeah? Grenada!

Besides, what's to worry, anyway:

I think you...underestimate the ferocity of the populism at present among the GOP base

[Shirley]

Defending Ukraine is defending democracy. Russia has pumped millions into pushing dangerous and stupid autocrats to the fore like a bad Marvel comic. See Trump. Hungary. Slovakia. France. It is possible to lose World War II 80+ years later. Ukraine suffered from many of the post-Soviet governance issues Russia did. But is miles ahead now of where it was. They are already a technology leader and will be an ever more valuable member of Europe. The absolute worthless rightwing crap will provably bring us all down anyway. Randy and Mich ask for the match to light themselves on fire, and it is infuriating. Unreachable fools will be the death of all of us.

If not now, then when the world's literally on fire, yes.

Wait, I thought the subject was the Russian invasion of Ukraine, not climate change.